MAY, 1796.]

Imprisonment for Debt.

[H. or R.

confessed he was unacquainted with the insolvent laws of any of the States, except Massachusetts and New Hampshire. There were several States whose laws he knew little or nothing of. Perhaps, some of them might favor the debtor to the injury, of the creditor. Until he knew what they were, he felt a difficulty to assent to them. He had another objection to the amendment-he supposed it would not only be adopting the laws at present in existence in the States, but also such as should hereafter be made on the subject of insolvency.

States. As the relief proposed for debtors has taking the State laws in the dark-taking a variimmediate reference to the State laws, the treat-ety of laws which they did not understand. He ment of the same description of debtors held under processes from the Courts of the United States, would be very different in different States. In New Jersey, for instance, they had no existing insolvent law, and, therefore, if the amendments reported by the select committee to the bill from the Senate were adopted, a debtor confined in that State would be left without any, the most distant, hope of relief, and must perish in jail, if he could not pay the debt. He owned that it would meliorate the condition of this unfortunate class of beings, where the State laws were then in force, to which the regulations could attach and apply, With respect to the observations of the gentlebut where that was not the case, as in New Jer-man from Virginia, [Mr. NICHOLAS.] on the subsey, and in two or three other States, their pros-ject of debtors and creditors under the laws of the pects would be more hopeless; for no subsequent United States and individual States, he allowed act of the State could bring them within the bene- they had some weight; but, notwithstanding, he fits of the law of the United States. declared himself unwilling to trust the States to make insolvent laws for the United States. In Vermont, he knew they made insolvent laws for every particular case, and, consequently, if this amendment passed, the United States must be ruled by their irregular proceedings. He did not wish to subject foreigners to the decision of such uncertain laws.

Mr. D. said, it appeared as if gentlemen were inclining to adopt the Committee's amendments, not because they altogether liked them, but merely because they thought them preferable to the Senate's bill; he, however, thought it more practicable, by means of amendments, to conform the latter than the former to the opinion of a majority.

Mr. VENABLE did not know what was the pracMr. GILES would not object to the provision, tice of other States, but, in the State from which because it did not apply to New Jersey; because he came, it would put foreigners only upon the he believed it was the best plan which could be same footing with others. He had not understood adopted at present. In the State which he repre- that the amendment would apply to laws to be sented, there were cases of persons having been hereafter made; if it had that meaning at present, for a long time imprisoned by foreign creditors. he should wish it to undergo an alteration, otherThis provision proposed to give such debtors the wise the States might make laws injurious to the same privileges which they would be entitled to, interests of the United States. Gentlemen preif they had been prosecuted under the State laws. sent, he said, were acquainted with all the State He had now letters which informed him of per-laws. If there was any case in which it would sons being imprisoned for debt, for whom no re-be wrong to adopt any State law in existence, it lief could be afforded. A man put into prison by a British creditor, (betwixt him and whom there might be supposed to be some degree of animosity,) might, by the bill, as sent from the Senate, be kept in close confinement without relief; whilst the citizens of the same State would not have the same power over any of their debtors. This provision went to put both upon the same footing. He hoped it would be agreed to, because, if disagreed to, no other law could be got through this session.

ought to be expressed by those who were acquainted with the circumstance. They ought, he said, either to make a general bankrupt law, or adopt some temporary measure. He thought the amendment should be adopted.

Mr. R. SPRIGG, Jr.. spoke in favor of the amendment. He thought it the best provision that could be made at this late period of the session.

Mr. Corr said, it was extraordinary to him, that when a law was proposed to continue in force an old law, that so very material an alteration should be proposed to be made in it. He believed inconvenience had been experienced under the old law, and this was nearly a copy of it.

Mr. NICHOLAS would submit it to the gentleman from New Jersey, [Mr. DAYTON,] and others, whether the situation of the States would be altered by this law? They certainly would not. It He was somewhat backward, he said, in stating went to conform the law of the United States to his ideas on the subject, because their law ideas those of the States, and not those of the States to were in some degree trammelled by the practice that of the United States. He would ask, if it they had been accustomed to. The old law was was not most important that there should be uni- agreeable to the practice which he had been acformity in the pains, in like cases, in the States customed to; it had been complained of as bearand United States? Or was it right that foreign-ing too hard upon the debtors. Much was said ers should have greater power over our citizens than they have over one another? He believed the only way of reconciling the State and General Governments was the one proposed.

about the hardship of imprisoning debtors. There was certainly no propriety in imprisoning a debtor, except for fraud; no one would be of a contrary opinion. If a man owed a debt, his person Mr. JEREMIAH SMITH said, it had been stated could be identified, but his property could not. as an objection to the amendment, that it was I Any duress you can perform, but attempt to lay

H. OF R.]

Expense of Foreign Intercourse

[MAY, 1796.

your hands upon property, and everything is un- those papers from their readers a day longer, and certain. Were it, therefore, only a guard against by this means give an advantage to the evening fraud, it was a desirable thing that a man's per- papers, which might copy whatever was valuable son should be laid hold of. A debtor can be im- from a morning paper, and stand upon the same prisoned at the expense of the creditor. This ground with it when they get to the places to power, he owned, might be abused, from the vio- which they were destined. This motion occalent or base disposition of a creditor, but such in- sioned some debate. It was supported by Messrs. stances would rarely occur. He scarcely ever MURRAY, GILES, and MACON, and opposed by knew an instance of the kind. If, when a credit-Messrs. HARPER, THATCHER, WILLIAMS, KITor threw his debtor into prison, he was extremely TERA, and JACKSON, partly on account of the exenraged and revengeful, after he had pa d the ex-pediency of the clause for the purpose of prepenses of his debtor sometime in prison, he soon serving the papers, and partly that no time might cooled. From this circumstance alone, there was be lost, and by that means endanger the passage little chance of a creditor keeping in prison a of the bill (which contains regulations for many debtor for very long time. As this law had new post roads) this session. been practised upon for three years, without much inconvenience, he was of opinion they had better continue it.

The question on the amendment was put, and carried-42 to 26.

Mr. NICHOLAS moved an amendment, which was agreed to, to allow all prisoners for debt the free use of their prison yards.

The motion was at length negatived, 40 to 34, and the bill was read a third time and passed. It was afterwards sent to the Senate, and, in the course of the sitting, returned from thence, with information that they had postponed the consideration of it till next session of Congress.

MILITARY APPROPRIATIONS.

Mr. W. SMITH, from the Committee of Ways and Means, made a report on a resolution to the following effect:

The Committee rose, and the House took up the consideration of the amendments, which were agreed to, and some additional ones made in the House. The bill afterwards passed, but the Se- "Resolved, That there be appropriated, for the nate returned it with a disagreement to the amend-year 1796, for the Military Establishment, inment, and, on a conference being held, the House cluding the sum already appropriated, dolof Representatives gave up their amendment on lars; for the Naval Department, dollars; account of the admission of an ameliorating pro-and for military pensions dollars, pursuant vision.

WEDNESDAY, May 18.

The bill providing passports for ships and vessels of the United States was read a second time, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.

The amendments of the Senate to the bill entitled an act for making provision for the payment of certain debts of the United States, were read, and ordered to be committed to a Committee of the Whole to-morrow.

Mr. GILES hoped the House would consent to take up the resolution, which he yesterday laid upon the table, relative to a close of the present session. He had conferred with some gentlemen of the Senate upon the subject, and it was their opinion, if Wednesday, the 25th instant, was inserted, instead of Saturday, the 21st, all the business of importance might be got through. He proposed, therefore, to make that alteration. The resolution was agreed to.

POST OFFICES AND POST ROADS. As the bill in addition to an act to establish Post Offices and Post Roads in the United States, was about to be read a third time, Mr. MURRAY proposed to recommit the bill, in order to strike out a clause which would considerably affect the morning papers of this city, as it required that they should be dried before they were sent by post, which (as it would be next to impossible to do it before seven o'clock in the morning, the time at which the papers were to be put into the post office) would have the effect of keeping

to the estimate herewith reported."

The estimate alluded to was made by the Secretary of War, as a substitute for one made last December; the sum necessary for the Military Department, was estimated at 1,441.209 dollars; for military pensions, 111,259, and for the Naval Department, 113,025; making, in the whole, 1,665,193 dollars.

The report, with the papers accompanying it, was ordered to be referred to a Committee of the Whole on Friday.

WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.

On motion of Mr. HARRISON, the House went into a Committee of the Whole on the bill regulating Weights and Measures, when Mr. Corr moved to strike out the first section, and spoke against the proposed plan altogether. Mr. HAVENS and Mr. SWANWICK defended it. The motion for striking out was negatived, and the bills agreed to without amendment. It was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading to-morrow.

EXPENSES OF FOREIGN INTERCOURSE.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill making provision for paying the expens s attending intercourse with foreign nations, and for continuing in force an act providing means of intercourse between the United States and foreign nations, for a limited time.

Mr. GALLATIN said he did not know with what sum the blank should be filled. There was a variety of expenses of which they had no estimate.

Mr. W. SMITH observed that it was very uncertain what would he wanted under this head.

MAY. 1796.1

Expense of Foreign Intercourse.

There was the agency of Mr. Bayard, who was now in London on public business, and much would depend upon his expenditures. There were at present 40 or 50,000 dollars unexpended of sums appropriated for foreign intercourse; but it was contemplated by this bill to appropriate that sum a different way. He would therefore move to fill the blank with a sum equal to that, viz: 40,000 dollars.

Mr. GALLATIN did not see any reason for so high a sum. The general foreign expenditure had been 40,000 dollars; but the sum with which this blank was to be filled was merely for extraordinary or contingent expenses, which could not be equal to the whole amount of ordinary foreign expenditure. Under the head of the general foreign intercourse, were included all the foreign ministers. The sum now to be added related to their particular situation. The mission of Mr. Bayard, he believed, was the principal; at least he did not know of any other. He moved to fill the blank with 10,000.

Mr. GILES wished the gentleman who moved to fill the blank with 40,000 dollars, would give the Committee some idea how that sum would be likely to be expended. on account of the mission of Mr. Bayard, he hoped If it was only wanted 10,000 would be enough.

Mr. SWANWICK thought it might be easily conceived how 40,000 dollars would be expended. Mr. Bayard was employed to prosecute the claims of the merchants of this country who had suffered by British spoliations; and every one who had the least idea of the expensiveness of English law courts and lawyers, would readily conceive that 40,000 dollars would soon be expended in that way. This was another consequence of British spoliations!

The question on forty thousand being lostMr. W. SMITH moved to fill the blank with 30,000. He said it was impossible to ascertain with precision what sum would be wanted. The gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. SWANWICK] had stated that the expenses attending the recovery of the amount of spoliations would be very considerable. He did not think it was right to embarrass the Executive by voting too small a sum; there might be an inconvenience in this, there would be none in voting a larger sum; because, if it was not wanted, they were certain the PRESIDENT would not expend it.

1394 [H. of R.

subject was first proposed, he did not understand it; but he believed it was the intention of Gorecovering the amount of the spoliations comvernment to pay the expenses of the law-suits for mitted upon the property of American merchants. And this, he said, was no more than just; for, if every merchant was under the necessity of prosecuting his own suit, the expense would be enorwould attend to the whole, the expense would mous; but having an agent on the spot who be greatly lessened. Besides, as their property had been illegally taken from them, it was the duty of Government to see them redressed. It was with this view, he believed, that an agent had been sent to London, and if, said he, we cripple him by granting too little money to defray his necessary expenses, he might as well have been kept at home. He should be in favor of $30,000.

ground. Whilst he would have justice done to Mr. WILLIAMS said, they were treading on nice propriated, he would not have too great a sum our merchants, by having a sufficient sum approvided, which might be paid for asserting claims for which there was no ground. If, for contraband goods, and was taken by the British, instance, he said, a vessel were fitted out with suit, which he could not support, to recover his if the owner of that vessel were to commence a property, would it be right that the expense of such a trial should be paid out of the Treasury of the United States? Čertainly not. And if they were to pay the expense of all suits, all who had the least chance of substantiating their claim, would be forward in bringing their suits; and, if the lawyers learnt a very large sum was appropriated for the purpose of paying them, he believed, however large they were to make it, it too much, but he would agree to that sum. would all be swallowed up. He thought $20,000

New York [Mr. WILLIAMS] need not be under Mr. SWANWICK thought the gentleman from any apprehension that the United States would pay the expense of any illegal claims. The Governmental agent would doubtless refuse to prosecute any claim that was dubious. It could not be suspected that money would be expended for such a purpose; but a considerable number of vessels had undergone a kind of mock trial in Bermuda, and were condemned, for which it was Mr. VENABLE did not know upon what princi- carried into Great Britain or elsewhere; but if necessary to seek restitution, as well as for those ple this money was asked for the payment of law-citizens were obliged to prosecute their own suits which might attend the recovery of the claims at their own expense, the expense would, amount of spoliations committed by the British in some cases, come to more than the upon the property of our merchants. know whether it would be proper to pay the ex- may be asked? It was, said Mr. S., because the He did not itself. And why should Government do this, it property pense of any such suits; of those which were merchants had a claim upon the protection of the brought on indefensible ground, it certainly was United States. They had been exposed to great not. If there was any law to direct them on this losses which they had sat quietly under, reposing occasion, he should be glad to know it. from the knowledge he had of the expense of law upon Government to obtain them redress; and, in England, he did not think $30,000 would be sufficient to defray the expense to be incurred; and if they should not appropriate a sufficient sum for the purpose, the merchants would not get sa

Mr. S. SMITH said, there was another expense which had not been mentioned. An agent had been sent to the West Indies to obtain evidence so as to enable Mr. Bayard to appear in the British courts with proper documents. When the

Expense of Foreign Intercourse.

tisfaction, but would, perhaps, hereafter call upon | Commissioners. If they failed in obtaining rethat House for reimbursement.