Land Office Northwest of the Ohio.

Mr. LYON show himself entitled; we ought not rence of the other two branches of the Legislato seek for his evidence. His prayer was not ture. This being the case, how will the postsupported; and why (said he) do gentlemen ma-ponement operate? Will it have the effect to nœuvre for three or four days in this business? He detested all ex officio hunters of prosecutions. The House was fully possessed of the merits of the case. He did not entirely agree with the form of the report of the committee; but hoped the question would neither be re-committed nor postponed.

Mr. KITTERA observed, the House could not Mr. RUTHERFORD said, there never was a bill make rules respecting a subject of this kind, un- of greater importance than that before the House. til a controversy took place. He mentioned sev-He said that House were the fathers of the couneral difficulties which arose in legislating on this subject; but thought they might make regulations on a matter of this sort, without the concur

FEBRUARY, 1796.]

Land Office Northwest of the Ohio.

[H. of R.

he meant to substitute another section in its place.

Mr. VAN ALLEN said, he meant to propose a new clause, and objected to the bill generally. He thought the Treasury and State Departments might undertake the business. He objected to the present survey. He said he thought of dividing the land into parcels of six miles square, which might again be subdivided; that exact surveys of the land should be taken, upon which should be

done the country great harm. Let us, said he, dispose of this land to original settlers, 150,000 families are waiting to become occupiers of this land. (a member called out for his authority, when he said there were more than that number.) The bill before the House, he said, was exceptionable. It would not, he said, defeat the speculators. The monsters in Europe, added he, are ready to join the monsters here, to swallow up the country. He said this tract of country should be disposed of to real settlers, industrious, respect-marked the qualities of the land, the rivers, springs, able persons, who are ready to pay a reasonable price for it, and not sold to persons who have no other view than engrossing riches. He had made out a rough plan, he said, of what struck him as proper regulations. He was proceeding to read the whole of them, when the Chairman reminded him that the first section only of the bill was under consideration. He said he was against the whole bill, and might as well then express his sentiments upon it. He said he was a mere child of nature, an inhabitant of the frontier, as untaught as an Indian; but he had some faint glimmerings of reason, and he was confident his plan would answer the desired purpose. After explaining and dwelling some time on the merits of it, he concluded with saying, he loved his country and all honest men, but hated speculators, and hoped the present bill would not pass.

&c., with great precision; that these should be published. If this was not done, he said, purchasers in general would not know any thing of what they purchase, and the country would be involved in law suits. He was of opinion the present bill would prove a very expensive one; objected to the terms of payment, and the mode of selling the land, and thought the evils of it could only be remedied by a new bill.

Mr. COOPER was nearly of opinion with the last speaker. He said he also had prepared the sketch of a bill.

Mr. NICHOLAS acknowledged, though he was one of the committee, that he was very imperfectly acquainted with the subject. He wished to hear gentlemen make specific propositions, and not to hear of new bills. Many objections might be urged against any bill which might be proposed. He hoped full liberty would be given to members to express their sentiments, which might be proposed as clauses to be added to the bill, and that they might not be confined in their discus

of the committee was to get the highest price for the land, and for this purpose they thought it necessary to make the titles sure. It has been said that the land should be laid out according to water, &c.; he thought this impossible to be done, so as to make titles certain. He trusted many of the objections stated might be remedied without a new bill. He thought the offices alluded to could not do the business, though he thought there were offices under Government that might do it; and hoped every member would speak his sentiments fully upon the subject.

Mr. FINDLEY said, it was a difficult matter to legislate well on a subject of such extent as this bill comprehended. He enumerated several defeets in the bill before the House. The duty of superintendents, he said, was not sufficiently ex-sions to any particular section. One great object plained: there was no responsibility in the surveyor; no salary appointed. By these omissions, a part of Legislative duty is transferred to agents. It becomes the Legislature, said he, to improve the advantages of nature; this bill does not do this. He spoke of the necessity of properly dividing bottoms, water, &c., into the different divisions. He said the size of the tracts was too large. It will be said they may be divided between a number of farmers, who might agree to purchase in company. He showed the inconveniences attending a practice of this sort, and said it was inviting people into a snare, which would cast dis- Mr. JEREMIAH SMITH thought it improper to honor upon Government. He thought the im-discuss the principle of the bill at present, until perfections of this bill could only be remedied by a new bill. He wished a plan to be adopted that should divide bottoms, and have more precision in the surveys. Many confusions, he said, had arisen in all new settlements, which might have been prevented with care. He said a surveyor had great power, and ought to be responsible. He touched upon the different kinds of surveying, and said, magnetical surveys were not always to be depended upon. Delay is objected to, but it is better, said he, to delay the business for a time, than pass a bad bill.

Mr. DAYTON (the Speaker) observed, that the objections which had fallen from the member just sat down, were of importance, but that this was not the proper time to consider them. He wished to be informed by the member who proposed to strike out the first section of the bill, whether 4th CoN.-12

they had examined its parts. It was now the time, he said, to propose alterations and amendments. When the bill is matured and reduced to form, then will be the time for discussing the principle. The first section he thought proper for any bill, and he hoped the motion for striking out would be withdrawn.

Mr. PAGE was of opinion the first clause was of the greatest consequence; he hoped it would be open to discussion. He had taken a view of the whole bill, and thought it a bad one, and the sooner they entered upon the discussion of it the better. He thought a better bill might be formed, but wished rather to bring on the discussion than to enter on it himself.

Mr. MURRAY wished the question of policy had first been agitated whether it was necessary to open a Land Office at all. He thought it should

H. OF R.]

Contested Election.

[FEBRUARY, 1796.

have been best to have laid off the land in ranges the proposed resolution immediately. It was a of lots, and when one range was patented and matter of considerable importance. Besides, to settled, to take another, until the whole was dis-pass it now, would seem as if it was intended for posed of.

an invitation for Mr. LYON to come forward; and he apprehended that most gentlemen who voted for a postponement of that business did not mean to take any further steps in it, except Mr. LYON himself personally solicited it.

Mr. GILES thought the resolution proposed was of serious import. When the question was formerly agitated whether that Assembly could make its own regulations for taking evidence on Contested Elections, it occasioned considerable debate, and the motion was negatived. He was at that time, as he now was, of opinion that the House had the power. But he thought the ques. tion ought to be matured, and not passed on a sudden. The regulation should be general, and not fitted for any particular case. He should move that the consideration of the resolution, therefore, be committed to a Committee of the Whole House on a distant day.

Mr. W. SMITH said the committee did not think it necessary to agitate the question of propriety respecting the establishment of a Land Office; the House having authorized them to bring in a bill for the purpose, they thought that sufficient. The committee for preparing a plan for reducing the National Debt, proposed a sale of the Western lands. The question was, whether the present bill was the best that could be formed for the purpose. He believed it liable to objections, as he believed any bill would be that was proposed. The committee, he said, had thought well of this bill. With respect to the motion for striking out the first clause, he thought it now improper, until we know in what manner the lands are to be sold; and when we learn what duties the officers will have to perform, we shall best know who can do them. The second clause, he said, related to the surveying of lands; the third clause is that which Mr. SEDGWICK thought this resolution should has been objected to with respect to the size of be committed to a select committee, which was tracts. In a former bill it was proposed that the better calculated for the business than a Commitlands should be divided into tracts of six miles tee of the Whole. He was of opinion with the square; but the committee thinking these too gentleman who spoke last, that the House was large, determined upon having them three miles competent to make its own regulations with resquare only. These are yet thought too extensive. spect to controverted elections. He said the deterHe said he wished to hear every objection that mination upon Mr. LYON's case had been put off could be urged against the bill, and should be open till the 29th March. Some way ought to be pointto conviction. The committee had two objects ined out in which he might bring forward evidence. view-to raise revenue, and to sell the land in such lots as would be most convenient to purchasers. It was once thought of selling the lands by auction; but it was feared, to have done so, would have been to open a door to speculators. They determined, therefore, to fix it at the price of two dollars an acre, and to sell no lands at present which would not bring that price, because, hereafter, when settlements are made, inferior land will command the same price. These were their sentiments, but they wished the subject to receive full discussion.

Mr. VAN ALLEN withdrew his motion, and the Committee rose and asked leave to sit again; which was granted.

TUESDAY, February 16.

or the postponement would be of no service to him. He hoped, therefore, no more time would be taken than necessary to mature the consideration of the measures, that the proposed regulations might apply to the case of Mr. LYON.

Mr. BALDWIN said the resolution should be referred to a Commitee of the Whole. He doubted whether Congress could make these regulations go beyond the present session. It had been said no delay should be allowed, as it would prevent Mr. LYON's having the advantage of the regulations. He said he wished the present resolutions to apply to no particular case, but to be general, and then no mischief could arise from delay.

Mr. VARNUM urged the impropriety of making regulations for Mr. Lyon's case, when he did not wish them. It was the wish of several members of that House, but not of himself, unless, indeed, he could have a certainty of displacing Mr. SMITH. Mr. LYON very well knew what evidence was necessary; he chose to act differently, and he should abide the consequences. This resolution goes to the admission of ex parte evidence. If it was necessary for the House to make a general rule, it was well; but if gentlemen wished only a regulation in favor of Mr. LYON, he hoped they would have the candor to say so.

CONTESTED ELECTION. Mr. HILLHOUSE said he wished, before the order of the day was gone into, to propose to the consideration of the House a resolution which he yesterday mentioned as his intention of bringing forward, if he was not anticipated by any other member, for regulating the taking of evidence in case of Contested Elections. He read the resolution, which went to make legal all evidence taken before any judge, justice, mayor, &c., in a way there-mittee the subject was referred. It had been in described, and wished it to be taken into consideration immediately, supposing that no objection would be made to the enacting a regulation so necessary for settling disputed elections.

Mr. BALDWIN said he should be against passing

Mr. HILLHOUSE was indifferent as to what com

said that Mr. LYON had given up the contest, except invited to renew it. He thought a principle was involved in this consideration, which he wished to be cleared. Mr. LYON, he said, wanted a full and fair investigation, and he ought to have

it. No evidence, he said, was legal, except taken according to a rule approved by the House. It has before been a question whether we could make these regulations. It required discussion. His motive for bringing forward the motion was, that Mr. LYON might have the means of coming forward; but he had been cautious in wording it, that the House might not appear to be volunteering in the cause of MATTHEW LYON, though he owned he did not himself feel any delicacy upon the subject.

The SPEAKER observed that it was out of order to bring into view the Contested Election business, and was about to put the motion, when

Mr. Buck informed the House that he had that morning received a letter from Mr. Lyon, by which it appeared that he intended to prosecute the business of his memorial, and that though he [Mr. Buck] was opposed to a recommitment or postponement of the report of the Committee of Elections, yet, as the House had declared in favor of postponement, for the obvious purpose of giving Mr. LYON an opportunity of further investigating facts, he considered it his duty, and the duty of every member, now to endeavor to forward that investigation, by removing out of the way every obstacle to it; and as the proposed resolution then before the House contemplated a provision for taking evidence in all cases of Contested Elections, it was of consequence that it should be adopted as soon as possible, that Mr. LYON might take the advantage designed by it. He further said, that though he really believed that LYGN had no serious intention of prosecuting his memorial when he first sent it forward; yet, since he had found that Congress had given it a serious attention, he was persuaded LYON now intended to follow it up.

Mr. HARPER said the time was fixed for finally determining the contest between Mr. SMITH and Mr. LYON; to adopt a distant day, therefore, for the consideration of the proposed regulations, would be to deprive Mr. LYON of the opportunity of substantiating his evidence. He hoped, therefore, a distant day would not be fixed upon, as the regulation was certainly intended to include his case. Mr. HARPER was proceeding to remark upon different observations which had fallen from members in the course of debate, with respect to the late contest, when the SPEAKER reminded him that if such observations had been made, they were out of order, and any remarks upon them would be equally so.

Mr. JEREMIAH SMITH thought the House should make the necessary regulations, and let Mr. LYON learn them as he could; he would soon be informed. he doubted not, of their determinations. The Committee of Elections, he said, were discharged from the subject. He thought a special regulalation should be made for this particular case, and not a general rule.

Mr. GILES regretted whenever a general rule arose out of a particular case; it too often was warped by it. He wished every fact which could be brought in Mr. LYON's case to be heard. If gentlemen would bring forward a particular rule

[H. of R.

for taking evidence in this case, it should receive his support. For the discussion of the general principle he wished, and should vote for a distant day to be fixed, as he apprehended much difference of opinion would take place on the occasion. Mr. GILBERT was for a general rule that would embrace all future cases as well as the present. Mr. JEREMIAH SMITH rose to inquire if the gen│eral regulation was put off to a distant day, whether it would be in order to bring forward a motion to suit the case of Mr. LYON? He was answered by the SPEAKER it would be perfectly in order.

The question was then put for postponing the motion until Monday week, and negatived-being for it 31, against it 50. It was then put for Monday next, and negatived-being for it 39, against it 42. It was then put for Thursday, and carried without a division.

Mr. JEREMIAH SMITH then moved "that the Committee of Elections be instructed to describe the mode of taking evidence in the case of MATTHEW LYON;" which, after several observations from different members, was put to the vote and negatived-being for it 36, against it 43.

NORTHWESTERN LAND OFFICE.

The order of the day being called for on the bill for establishing Land Offices, and the House having formed itself into a Committee of the Whole

Mr. WILLIAMS said there was a diversity of opinion on the bill before the Committee. It embraced two objects, as had before been observed, to raise money and invite settlers. He did not think this bill was calculated to encourage settlers. They could not become first purchasers, but must have the second or third transfers. It behooved the House, he said, to deliberate well the subject. It had been said, if the land were divided into small parcels, the expense attending the disposal of it would swallow up the price. He trusted, however, a mode would be devised of bringing double the sum into the Treasury that would be raised by the present bill, and, at the same time, encourage settlers. He hoped, therefore, to attempt to effect this would not be deemed a waste of time. The Surveyor General, he said, should be a man of abilities and integrity, and well acquainted with the country. When this officer is appointed, the bill should be so framed as that he should be directed to lay the land out in small lots, by the course of the rivers, pointing out every situation which he thinks likely to be of importance. He thought the best mode of selling would be by auction, and that a longer time should be given for payment. Let the Surveyor General or Superintendent first explore the country, and cause to be surveyed into small lots all the places which, from the locality and situation, would command an immediate settlement, (reserving all salt-springs and places of importance to be hereafter disposed of;) to these small lots let there be lots of larger denominations also laid out, so as to accommodate the purchasers of the small ones-these to be sold together. Then cause to be laid out the next most valuable places, to be run off in squares of ten

The plan had been acted on in the State which he had the honor to represent, and land much inferior to this had been sold with ease at two dollars per acre. The expense of disposing of the The Chairman having read the second sectionland in this way, he said, would be somewhat Mr. GALLATIN observed, that two remarks had greater, but this would be amply repaid by the been made which applied to these sections. The price it would command. When the Surveyor proposed mode of surveying, it had been said, would had finished the survey of a certain part, persons throw out the natural boundaries of the country. might be employed to sell it, and so proceed pro- The next objection was to the largeness of the gressively. He should waive any further remarks tracts. Two amendments which he should proat present. He thought it necessary to throw out pose would bring these two questions before the these hints for the use of the Committee, and hop-House; and if the amendments be thought mateed other gentlemen would deliver their sentiments freely upon the subject.