FEBRUARY, 1796.] Canadian Refugees-Northwestern Land Office. said, could be expected to go into a critical examination of different kinds of soil, situation, and description of water, &c. ; nor could it be expected that Government could make the same advantages in disposing of this land as if it were private property. Large capitals, he said, were necessary in a business of this kind. There was great difficulty, he observed, in starting farmers, by any advantages which might be offered, from situations in which they were placed. It might be expected, that at first, large purchases would be made by moneyed men, upon which a profit would be made. But if the land were to be divided into small lots, there would be no encouragement for men of property to come forward: the best land would be bought by farmers, and the rest left. He was fully of opinion, that the first purchaser of the land was not likely to be the cultivator. The House calling for a rise of the Committee, leave was asked to rise and sit again; which was granted. Adjourned. WEDNESDAY, February 17. THE CANADIAN REFUGEES. It was moved that the report of the committee on the petition of certain Canadian refugees be taken into consideration, for the purpose of committing it to the Committee of Claims. Mr. LIVINGSTON thought this business ought not to go to the Committee of Claims, as a promise of a grant of lands had been made to these claimants by a former Congress; and therefore it was not the justice of their claim which was to be considered, but whether the promise made them should or should not be fulfilled by the present Congress. Mr. SEDGWICK said, there was no difference, in his opinion, betwixt a claim for land and a claim for money. All claims, he said, should be referred to the Committee of Claims, and no other. Mr. LIVINGSTON requested that the reports of a former Congress might be read; which, being done, he insisted upon this case being totally different from ordinary claims. He said, the sufferers whose case was under consideration were men who had sacrificed much in the service of this country, and that, in consequence of the justice of their claims, a former Congress had positively promised them a recompense of a grant of land; they had therefore only to say whether this should or should not be done. He was desirous that the business should be expedited, as these men had been a long time kept from what they were justly entitled to. A report of a committee in February, 1793, was called for and read. Mr. WILLIAMS thought it best for the report to be recommitted, in order to determine what quantity of land should be granted to these persons. He said he was well acquainted with many of these persons, who were very deserving men; many of whom had given up their fortunes to engage in the service of this country. The State which he represented had recompensed many of them, and he trusted the House would not hesitate to carry into effect the promise of a former Congress in their favor. [H. OF R. Mr. GILES said, the report before the House contained sufficient information to proceed upon, which ought to be committed to a Committee of the Whole House. He did not think the business proper to go either to the Committee of Claims or a select committee. If no fresh testimony was likely to be adduced, he should move the report of 1793, as a foundation to act upon. Some compensation, he said, should certainly be made to these sufferers for the sacrifices which they had made of their persons and fortunes; or, if the country should hereafter have need of like sacrifices, with what reason could they expect them to be made? Mr. GREENUP observed, there was another report in favor of these sufferers made on the 1st April, 1794, which was never acted upon. He thought it best that this business should be referred to some committee to be considered. He said it was time these claims were satisfied. A select committee might soon decide upon their merits. He had other papers in his possession which would throw light upon the subject. He thought the report should be disagreed to, and committed for amendment. The motion was put for committing the subject to a Committee of the Whole, and carried-45 against 21. Mr. GREENUP then moved that the report of the 1st April, 1794, on this subject, be referred to the same committee. Agreed to, and made the order of the day for Monday next. CONTESTED ELECTION. Mr. LYMAN moved for a reconsideration of the resolution postponing the determination upon the case of MATTHEW LYON's petition against the election of ISRAEL SMITH to the 29th of March. Mr in the business, he should wish the report of the LYON having announced his intention to proceed committee to be recommitted. Mr. S. SMITH hoped the House would agree to the report of the committee; and, if in order, he would make a motion to that effect. Mr. HILLHOUSE said, if the gentleman who spoke last had made up his mind on the subject, he had not, and was not prepared to determine so suddenly on a matter of importance. He thought it improper to put such a resolution, and hoped it would be withdrawn. Mr. S. SMITH understood that his motion was superseded by the motion for commitment, or he should have wished it to have been put. He said gentlemen repeated, day after day, the same sentiments this business, in a tiresome manner, upon and that it had already occupied too much of the time of the House. and the report of the Committee of Elections was The resolution for postponement was rescinded, recommitted to the same committee. NORTHWESTERN LAND OFFICE. The order of the day being called for, on the bill for opening land offices for the disposal of lands in the Northwestern Territory, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, and the amendments of the 2d and 3d sections, offered by Mr. GALLATIN, being under consideration H. OF R.] Northwestern Land Office. [FEBRUARY, 1796. Mr. FINDLEY observed, that there were different be first considered. If every member were to proopinions on the subject before them: some were pose different systems, there would be no possifor making complete surveys; some for large and bility of proceeding in the business. The object some for small tracts. Surveys, he said, should of the last speaker might be obtained by an alternot destroy natural boundaries; and the fewer par-ation in the second section. It was easy to divide allel lines, the less destruction of this kind. It was one mile square into tracts of 160 acres each. In not necessary, he said, to say much upon the size the third section a subdivision might be proposed, of tracts. A gentleman had said, it was necessary if members pleased. He touched upon the subto sell the land in large quantities. He was glad ject of natural boundaries, and said he should be to hear members express themselves so clearly. against the amendment, except he heard it exHis views were directly opposite: he was for en-plained more to his satisfaction. couraging farmers, and against engrossing. He wished every man to have an opportunity of purchasing fifty or one hundred acres. They ought not only to keep a wholesale but a retail store. It was the interest, he said, of every country to encourage freeholders: they are interested in supporting the laws. This, he added, is not only good for Government, but it tends to make the people happy. Land is the most valuable of all property, said he, and ought to be brought within the reach of the people. He next spoke upon the subject of boundaries, and answered the objections which had been made against taking natural ones. He was for the amendment, and trusted all those who wished to encourage industrious farmers would also vote for it. Mr. GALLATIN declared his reason for bringing forward the amendment was, to have the important matter settled respecting the size of tracts. It was immaterial whether this amendment was introduced in one section or another. The bill, he doubted not, would be recommitted, and then the committee might place it where they pleased. He considered that there were three classes of purchasers: the first were moneyed men, who were commonly called speculators, who were not likely to settle upon the land they purchased, but who would sell it again for a profit; the second class were farmers of small property, who would purchase and settle upon the land; the third class were men who have not money to purchase, except the land was sold much below its value. He said there was no object of so great importance to the United States as the extinction of the curse of the country, the Public Debt, and no class of citizens would be more benefited by this extinction than the poor. It was in the power of the United States, he said, to redeem and extinguish the whole Debt in ten years. He considered that a certain proportion of farmers of small property, who are able to pay for land, and who wish to remove from their present situations backward, would purchase: he wished to give them an opportunity. But there remains another class, said he, who are likely to purchase large tracts; and this Mr. RUTHERFORD thought the bill altogether is the only class from whom poor persons can get improper. If he asked a fine painter to present lands. The farmer, he observed, would not buy him a peacock, and he painted him a bat, he should land to sell. These poor persons must purchase tell him, that though he might be a fine painter, on long credit, and pay out of the profits of the yet he had totally mistaken him. He was pro-land. Many parts of the United States, it was ceeding to object to the whole bill, when he was called to order, and concluded by saying he was for the amendment. Mr. GALLATIN wished to withdraw his motion, in order to introduce one of greater importance. He did not think the present one material to be determined upon at present. He proposed to strike out part of the second section, and to add the following: "to cause one-half of the townships to be subdivided into tracts of, as nearly as may be, miles square, and the other half to be divided into tracts not exceeding - acres, nor less than" This, said he, will bring into discussion and to the determination of the committee whether they will agree to the selling of part of the land, at least, in small and convenient farms. true, had been peopled by persons of no property at all; but they got their land for nothing. After a term of fifteen years' possession, the State, indeed, Mr. HAVENS did not see the propriety of having called upon them for some trifling consideration. large and small tracts: he wished all the land to The purchasers of large lots may, it is true, choose be in small tracts. Men who have large capitals whom they will credit, and what profit they will will have always an advantage over those whe have; but this must be so. The money, by these have but little property, though the land be in means, would be got into the Treasury, and theresmall tracts. He thought a tract of one mile square fore he thought the amendment proper, by dividlarge enough. He was against the bill altogether, ing the land into two classes. If the whole, he and thought a special committee should be ap- said, were to be divided into small tracts, persons pointed to bring in a bill that would be more likely would choose here and there, and prevent men of to answer the desired purpose. He read some property from purchasing large tracts lying togepropositions which he had prepared on the sub-ther. Mr. G. concluded, with observing, he might ject, which recommended the allotting of tracts into six miles square, and subdividing them again into lots of one mile square. Mr. DAYTON said, there was an impropriety in moving to recommit the bill before it had received discussion. The amendments proposed by a member from Pennsylvania were in order, and should be mistaken in some things, in others he thought he was not, having paid much attention to the subject. It was necessary, he said, to make some compromises, in order to reconcile different opinions. Mr. NICHOLAS was confirmed in his opinion that speculators would be of service in the dis posal of this land. He was willing that the plan proposed by the amendment might be adopted, but was afraid by the alteration proposed, the certainty which was contemplated by the bill of a person's going over the land, and fixing upon this or that part, would be defeated. Mr. KITCHELL thought the amendment might be so formed as not to destroy the parallel lines marked in the original bill, by inserting the amendment at the end of the section. Mr. GALLATIN was willing to agree to the proposed alteration. Mr. RUTHERFORD again occupied a considerable time in making objections against the bill, which were pretty much the same as those he brought forward yesterday. [H. OF R. Mr. DAYTON was against the amendment to the amendment. Some purchasers, he said, would go out in companies, and some single. If persons of the first description could not have a certainty of purchasing a sufficient quantity of land lying together, it would be a great discouragement to them. Besides, he said, the expense attending the mode, would exceed calculation. He was willing that a part of the lands should be laid out in small lots, but not that the whole should be so divided. Mr. DEARBORN was against both amendments, because they would not answer the purpose intended. He thought the land would be settled without these regulations. He had no objection to the accommodating persons of small property, but he would lay out small lots in certain parts lying together. Persons, he said, who purchase with a view of selling again, would not purchase unless they were to purchase a township six miles square. Mr. CRABB was in favor of the amendment. It would provide, he said, for different classes of citizens, and, by causing the land to bring a better price, be productive to the Treasury. He was against having all the land laid out in large lots; in that case men of small property could not become adventurers, except by combining into companies-a plan he did not like. A member had said, it would still give moneyed men an oppor-square, or six hundred and forty acres. Persons tunity of purchasing to advantage; he thought differently, as there would be great uncertainty in getting lots lying together. Mr. HAVENS moved that the words "one-half" be struck out of the amendment. He had no doubt the amendment was brought forward with the best intentions; but it would not sufficiently prevent monopolizing. He thought if the land was put in small lots, which was the object of this motion to strike out, moneyed men would have all the advantages they ought to have. Mr. MOORE said it was desirable that every citizen who had a wish to purchase a part of this land should be accommodated. Security in every purchase of land was a principal thing; and the security given by purchasers will not be equal to that given by Government. If the land were divided into small tracts, he doubted not the best land would sell immediately, and when that was settled inferior land would command a price equal to the best. He hoped the amendment would pass. Mr. WILLIAMS said there would be no competition, if all the land were in large tracts. A man who can purchase a few hundred acres cannot oppose a man who is ready to purchase as many thousands. If the amendment was agreed to, the bill would be so framed as to accommodate all classes of purchasers, by laying out the lands into small and large lots, as the situation and quality of the land required; this would embrace two objects, to wit: the settlement of the lands, and bringing money into the Treasury, to discharge the Public Debt. Mr. GREENUP did not like the amendment; he wished the whole of the land to be divided into small lots. Mr. NICHOLAS observed, that persons who could purchase large lots, would not purchase small ones, and, therefore, the public Treasury would be injured by dividing the whole into small parcels. Mr. DUVALL was in favor of the original amendment; but he would burden the public with no expense of surveying lots less than one mile who purchased might divide such a lot into four parts, if they pleased, at their own expense. The large tracts of three miles square might be left for those who chose to purchase. He would confine all surveys to four lines, except in cases of water, &c. If these principles were agreed upon, the bill might be recommitted. Mr. LIVINGSTON thought they should either adopt the plan of selling in large parcels only or in small tracts only. No person, he said, would purchase a large tract at the same price which a small one was sold for. He was in favor of the amendment amended. He was for dividing the land into lots of a mile square. It has been said if this was done, large purchasers would not come forward, because small lots might be taken from a parcel which they might wish to purchase together. The plan, he said, likely to reduce the Debt soonest, and encourage settlers, was the best. Small tracts will do this. They will bring a higher price, and from real settlers. The State of New York, he said, first divided their unappropriated lands into large lots, which sold from one shilling to three shillings per acre; afterwards they were divided into small tracts, and sold for two dollars per acre. Mr. VENABLE said there was not one man in an hundred who could purchase three miles square of land; but ninety-nine out of an hundred might be found willing to purchase a small tract. A fair competition, he said, ought to be given. He saw no difficulty in dividing the lots. Purchasers might do this. The great mass of money in this country, he said, lay in the hands of persons of small property. Mr. FINDLEY said the amendment to the amendment came nearest to his opinion of right. It was said putting the land in small parcels would prevent men of money from purchasing. Experience in this State, he said, contradicted this, where, though lots were limited to four hundred H. OF R.] American Seamen-Disabled Officers and Soldiers. acres, names are in the books for much larger purchases. When land was divided into small lots, no particular political interest was formed. He did not think large purchases were likely to accommodate poor persons. He believed many persons of this description were already on the lands. The expense of dividing the land into lots of one hundred and sixty acres each would not be so great as had been supposed: he would engage to do it for less than two per cent. on the lowest purchase. The surveys must not, he said, be taken by purchasers, but by a surveyor appointed by Government. He was not for sub-dividing the whole, but a part of the land. Mr. KITTERA said it was wished, by making small lots, to prevent the necessity of purchasing of speculators. Instead of lots of six miles square, he would propose lots of five miles square, or sixteen thousand acres, as attended with more certainty in the division. Townships might then be divided into four cross lines, making four thousand acres, and then again into four, making lots of one thousand acres each. This might be done with certainty, would save expense in surveying, and answer the purpose of the amendment. Mr. HAVENS again rose to defend his amendment, and said the reasoning against it was fallacious. Whatever part of the land was sold in large lots, speculators would get the profit of, but of the small lots Government would receive that profit. Mr. DAYTON Controverted the last speaker's arguments, on the same ground as before, that they would prevent companies of persons, or numbers of families agreeing to settle together from purchasing as they would wish. [FEBRUARY, 1796. could not see that the latter would be excluded by the proposed division. Mr. VAN ALLEN spoke a considerable time upon the subject. He was in favor of making the tracts five miles square, which might, he said, be so divided as to suit all purchasers. At this point the Committee rose, and the House adjourned. THURSDAY, February 18. A member expressing a wish that before the order of the day was taken up, the bill granting relief to Lieutenant Benjamin Strother, for supporting a number of recruits on their march to the Army might be considered, and the sense of the House being in favor of doing so, it went through the necessary forms, was agreed to, read a second time, and ordered to be engrossed for a third reading to-morrow. AMERICAN SEAMEN. After disposing of a number of petitions Mr. LIVINGSTON wished to call the attention of the House to the cause of an important body of men, the seamen of this country. They were, he said, of three descriptions, native Americans, Europeans, or naturalized citizens. All these, said he, are equally entitled to the protection of the laws of the United States, though their profession sometimes puts them out of it. These men, he said, sailing under the American flag, have been illegally seized, cruelly torn from their friends and country, and ignominiously scourged; yet this country has for three years been silent, lookng upon their sufferings with listless apathy. An instrument had indeed been formed between this Mr. CRABB was against the amendment to the country and that whose subjects had thus treated amendment. He thought the last speaker had our seamen; but it was in vain that they looked completely defeated the arguments in support of for redress in that. He should, however, always it. Both poor and rich classes, he said, would be think it his duty to endeavor to procure this illdisappointed by the proposed plan, and the view treated body of men some relief. He then read of gaining revenue would be frustrated. If smaller a resolution, proposing to appoint a committee to lots than a mile square be not laid out, thousands examine into the subject, and to furnish some of persons would not be served. Farmers of mid-remedy to the evil complained of. dling property could only purchase. Two-thirds of the purchasers would be excluded. By laying out the land in large and small tracts, persons of every description would be suited. At least the experiment was worth trying. After a few observations from Mr. S. SMITH, Mr. MURRAY, and Mr. SWANWICK, the resolution was ordered to lie on the table. order of the day might be dispensed with for a short time, for taking up the bill for the relief of wounded and disabled officers and soldiers in the actual service of the United States. DISABLED OFFICERS AND SOLDIERS. The order of the day being called for, Mr. Mr. SHERBURNE said if the whole of the land TRACY wished, in order the sooner to furnish rewere to be divided into small lots, men of pro-lief to their suffering fellow-citizens, that the perty would be excluded; as if they were to purchase a number of small lots, they could not sell them again on the same terms with Government. He did not think there were many families ready to go and settle upon these lands, as had been asserted; and he was not, he said, desirous of removing the inhabitants of the Atlantic States into these back settlements, but wished rather to import settlers. He was therefore for having part of the land in large tracts. Mr. CLAIBORNE was for the latter amendment, and if adopted, he had a clause which he wished to be added. He thought the poor ought to be accommodated as well as the wealthy; and he Mr. GALLATIN did not see the necessity of postponing the order of the day for the consideration of the bill in question; but he mentioned another which was of the first consequence, viz., the report of the Committee of Ways and Means for making further provision for the Public Debt. The sense of the House being taken, it was in favor of taking up the business recommended by Mr. TRACY; and the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the subject, and FEBRUARY, 1796.J Public Debt-Northwestern Land Offices. [H. OF R agreed to the bill without amendment. The description to be accommodated. If the latter House then proceeded to take it into considera- amendment were to pass, a favorite spot might be tion. A few remarks were made by different taken from the midst of a large lot, and prevent members on the propriety of including in the bill large tracts of land being sold. The Treasury, he wounded militiamen also. This was objected to said, should be considered as well as the convenias a separate consideration, which would be bet-ence of purchasers. One half of the land divided ter brought forward at another time. The words, fourth of March, seventeen hundred and eightynine," (restricting the benefit of the act to persons wounded subsequent to that time,) were, on motion, agreed to be struck out. The bill was then agreed to, and ordered to be engrossed for a third reading. PUBLIC DEBT. Mr. GALLATIN brought forward the consideration of the report of the Committee of Ways and Means on what further measures are necessary to reinforce the existing provisions for the Public Debt. into small lots would be amply sufficient, and the remainder remaining in large tracts, might be purchased by foreigners or others. Mr. WILLIAMS said, the chief objections urged against small lots, were chiefly that they would not suit persons of large property to purchase so well as large lots. Persons of property, said he, can generally accommodate themselves; we ought to accommodate the lower classes of the people. He hoped the bill might be so framed as to embrace all the objects. He would not wish to prevent companies of persons from purchasing large districts; he believed there were such in this city who would wish to do so. Or townships, he said, The House having resolved itself into a Com- might be divided into halves or quarters. By thus mittee of the Whole, Mr. GALLATIN moved three dividing their lands, the State which he representdifferent amendments, which went to the making ed had acquired three times the sum that they more clear the time of paying dividends, the would otherwise have got. This plan had not, making of payments more uniform, and the leav-he said, prevented speculation; but it had excited ing open the rate of interest, which being sever- a competition which had greatly favored their ally agreed to, the Committee rose, and the report treasury. If the measures now agreed upon, should and amendments being read to the House, were not be found the best, they might be remedied in agreed to as follows: the next Congress. A surveyor, he said, should explore this country, and point out the most valuable lots. These would bring a high price. When a settlement took place, he said, the unoccupied land near to it would immediately rise in price. It would be best, therefore, to do the business gradually, as this mode would eventually bring the largest sum into the Treasury; a sum which he hoped would nearly discharge the National Debt. It had been said, it mattered not who got the lands, provided we got the money; but, he thought it of the first consequence that the country should be settled with industrious freeholders. He concluded by hoping the latter amendment would be agreed to. "Resolved, That, in respect to the funded stock of the United States bearing a present interest of six per centum, there shall be dividends made on the last days of March, June, and September, for the present year, at the rate of one and one-half per centum; and from the year one thousand seven hundred and ninety-seven to the year inclusive, at the rate of per centum upon the original capital. That there be dividends made on the last days of December, from the present year to the year — inclusive, at the rate of per centum upon the original capital; and that a dividend be made on the last day of December, in the per centum upon the original capi year of Mr. BALDWIN thought the original amendment the land would be a sufficient check upon specuwent far enough; he believed the price put upon tal, in full of the said stock. "Resolved, That provision ought to be made for reimbursing, in the same proportions as the other six per cent. stock, the balances bearing, and to bear, interest at six per centum, due to certain States, which were funded in consequence of an act passed May the thirty-lators. Perhaps it would be well, he said, to difirst, one thousand seven hundred and ninety-four. "Resolved, That the Commissioners of the Sinking Fund be authorized to appoint a Secretary for the purpose of recording and preserving their proceedings and documents; and that a sum not exceeding two hundred and fifty dollars be annually allowed the said Secretary for his services." Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in pursuant to the said resolutions, and that the Committee of Ways and Means do prepare and bring in the same. NORTHWESTERN LAND OFFICES. The order of the day was next taken up on the bill for establishing Land Offices, and the two amendments of Mr. GALLATIN and Mr. HAVENS being under consideration, Mr. KITCHELL hoped, the words one half would not be struck out, as he wished purchasers of every vide every alternate square into small tracts. If speculators bought the large tracts, when the small ones came to be settled, they would divide and sell theirs; or, if the large tracts remained in the hands of Government, they might afterwards be divided into small lots. He thought it best to commence the business with large and small lots. Mr. MACLAY was of opinion, that the committee who brought in the present bill had principally the Treasury in view; but if a mode could be adopted that would equally encourage settlers and benefit the public funds, it would be desirable. It must be evident, he said, to every one, that an actual settler would not be able to purchase the quantity of land mentioned in the bill. He believed there would be no difference of opinion on that head. It would be well to inquire what plan would operate most to the advantage of the Treasury. He believed it was a fact generally allowed. |