Sidebilder
PDF
ePub

H. of R.]

Northwestern Land Offices.

[FEBRUARY, 1796.

he said, with a view of bringing before the House the question, whether the land should be laid off in large tracts, in part large and part small, or all small. Some members have given their opinion in one way, some in another. He wished the question to be decided, whether all the tracts should be of one size or not.

Mr. HAVENS answered, that it was sufficient to support his amendment, to prove that land in small lots produced a better price than when disposed of in large tracts.

that the greatest quantity of the money in this the point to be decided upon. If these desultory country lay in the hands of agriculturists. These discussions were permitted, there would be no end purchasers, then, should be met; for if the quanti-to the business. Amendments have been made, ties of land offered be too great, or the price too high, these men would be shut out from the market; but he thought a system might be devised which would equally suit moneyed men and men of small property. In the extent of country they were about to dispose of, there was land enough to satisfy the demand of purchasers of every class. The only question is, the best way of doing this. Mr. HAVENS again rose to support his amendIt must be on terms which they can embrace.ment, and, in answer to the objection which had Men of little money must have small parcels of been brought against the plan of small lots on the land, whilst men of large property may have as ground of expense, said that the charge of surveymuch as they please. Shall these purchasers being the land into lots of a mile square would not mingled together or separate? Persons purchas-exceed 2d. per acre. In support of his argument, ing small lots, would wish to be near their friends he referred to the experience of the State of New or connexions, who might also have been pur-York. chasers, that they might be of mutual service to Mr. COOPER said, that though the land in the each other. The way then, in his opinion, to meet State of New York had been sold in lots of 100 both demands, would be to lay off one part of the acres, no farmers were purchasers. He said, he land in large tracts, and the other in small lots. bought many of the tracts himself. Neither did Besides, said he, suppose a lot of six miles square farmers purchase when land was sold at 8d. per settled, the adjoining lots would immediately in- acre, at vendue. The true cause of the land sellcrease in value, and as no one would have a claiming high in that State, was the competition of to it, it ought to go the Treasury of the United moneyed men at vendue. States, which it would do, if the lands were undisposed of. The two plans, he observed, should by all means be kept distinct, as there was an impossibility of doing two things at the same time. One would interfere with the other. He said, the Mr. CRABB, was in favor of the original amendland they were about to dispose of, was a great ment as embracing both the wholesale and retail common right to which every citizen in the coun- plans. No attention, it is said, should be paid to try was entitled to a share, therefore, to bring it moneyed men, they will take care of themselves. to market in such lots as but few can purchase, Though this was true, yet if the Treasury was to was injustice; besides, persons of small property be served, it was necessary to accommodate them, would be lost as purchasers by such a conduct. If as they could not be expected to become purchathe Treasury, indeed, alone was considered, small sers, if obstructions were thrown in their way. If lots would best answer the purpose. He said it our Treasury was indeed swelled with riches, would be also unjust to bring the whole of the there would be no necessity, perhaps, for this atland into the market at once; for, as it is a com- tention; but, in its present state, their money mon right, all ought to have a chance of purchas- would be useful. We might say there is no man ing, and some persons who cannot just now raise in the community who has not a claim upon our money, might be able to buy in the course of a few unappropriated lands. Every man has a right in years. Nor would it be prudent. he said, to glut them; but policy will not admit of a strict inquithe market. The quantity necessary for the pre-ry into this, yet we must go as near the mark as sent demand might easily be calculated. possible. It has been said, that selling a part of With respect to boundaries, Mr. M. thought it these lands would raise the price of those adjoineasy to describe lots sufficiently correct, by meansing. This was true, and the strongest incitement of rivers, creeks, &c. As one part of the country, he said, became settled, another would increase in value, and by a proper disposal of these lands the National Debt would be extinguished ; but, if this plan failed, there would be no resource left but taxation, which it would be desirable to avoid. It has been said that the survey should be bound down by the cardinal points; this method, he said, might prove to be the most inconvenient of any. He concluded by saying, that policy and justice equally required that purchasers of every description should be attended to, and hoped, therefore, that the amendments would be agreed to, and the bill recommitted.

Mr. HARPER wished to call the attention of the House to the business immediately before it. Members still wandered, he said, and lost sight of

to purchasers. Men of property, he said, would not lay out their money, if no chance of gain was held out to them. He thought if the price of the land was fixed at two dollars per acre, speculators who purchased it would not injure, but benefit the United States. If nothing, he said, was contemplated but the sale of a small portion of land, Government might reserve a part for future demands; but the Treasury wanted the money. No calculation, he observed, could be made of the quantity of land necessary for the present demand. Many persons would become purchasers who had not yet applied. He said the only way in which the poorer classes could get possession of land, would be by means of the purchasers of large lots, who would give them long credit.

Mr. GALLATIN thought the difference betwixt

FEBRUARY, 1796.]

Distilled Spirits—Northwestern Land Offices.

[H. of R.

his amendment and that proposed by the member Mr. HARPER observed, that though it might not from New York, was not so great as had been be found practicable to carry all the proposed conceived by that gentleman. He did not mean measures into effect, yet he wished them to be by his amendment (as seemed to have been un- committed to the committee he had mentioned, derstood by several members) that one-half of in order to have their report thereon. every tract should be laid out in small lots, but After a number of observations from several memthat certain townships should be laid out in large, bers, for and against the resolutions being commitand others in small lots. He thought the plan heted, it was finally agreed to, 39 to 44. proposed, would provide as many small lots as would be wanted, and more was unnecessary. The large tracts, he said, would be purchased by men of large property, and they would sell again to the poorer classes on credit, which was the only way in which they could get possession of a part of this land, as Government would not be inclined to give the credit necessary to be given to these purchasers.

The question being called for, the second amendment for all small lots was first put and lost, and then the first for large and small, which was carried without a division ; and the House adjourned.

FRIDAY, February 19.

The committee to whom was referred the bill for establishing trading houses for the Indian tribes, with the amendments proposed by the Senate, report it as their opinion, that the amendments should not be adopted, except one of them which was read.

The bill for relief of certain officers and soldiers who have been wounded or disabled in the actual service of the United States, was read a third time. And the blank which was at first filled up with the words, " 4th of March, 1789," was agreed to be again so filled, as the member who moved these words to be struck out, said he found that the amendment would not include the persons he intended to include. The bill was then passed. The bill for relief of Lieutenant Benjamin Strother was read a third time and passed.

DUTIES ON DISTILLED SPIRITS.

Mr. HARPER wished the unfinished business before the House to give way for a short time to enable him to present some resolutions relative to the duty paid on distilled spirits, for the purpose of committing them to the Committee of Ways and Means. The resolutions were accordingly

read as follows:

AMERICAN SEAMEN.

Mr. LIVINGSTON said, as the unfinished business might take up much time of the House, before it was entered upon, he wished the resolution to be taken up, which he yesterday laid upon the table relative to the case of American seamen.

The House consenting, the following resolution was read, agreed to unanimously, and referred to a committee of five members.

66

Resolved, That a committee be appointed to inquire and report whether any and what Legislative provision is necessary for the relief of such American seamen as may have been impressed into the service of any foreign Power-and also to report a mode of furnishing American seamen with such evidence of their citizenship as may protect them from foreign impressment in future." LAND OFFICES NORTHWEST OF THE OHIO.

The order of the day on the bill for establishing Land Offices for the sale of the Northwestern Territory, being again taken up, and the House having formed itself into a Committee of the Whole, and the second section being read,

Mr. HARPER said he wished to move an amendment. The vote of yesterday, he observed, had decided upon one principle of this business, viz: that the land should one-half be sold in tracts of a large size, and one half in lots of a small size. Another important principle which he thought proper now to be determined upon, was, what quantity of land should be sold-whether the whole of the extensive territory, or a part of it only. It had been observed, that the two important objects in view were to produce revenue, and to lay off the land in such a manner as to conduce to its settlement. These were certainly important objects, he said, but not the only ones. Another object was, to adopt such a mode of settlement as should preserve peace, and continue to give a stable and orderly system of government to this new society. The object of revenue, he said, was not the most important though desirable-as we might do without this for the present-but to settle this land in a way so as to secure order and good government was of the first importance.

The bringing of the whole of this land into the market at once, Mr. H. observed, would be a great disadvantage; as it was a well known fact, that the price of a commodity always depended on the the demand. Here is a country, said he, containproportion the quantity to be disposed of bore to ing twenty millions of acres-a part of which are

“Resolved, That the duties now payable on spirits distilled within the United States, ought to be transferred from the commodity, and laid upon the instrument. "Resolved, That the collection of those duties, and of all other internal revenues of the United States, ought to be made by the Collectors of the various States under the direction of the Treasury Department, and of the Supervisors of the Revenue, except in cases where the District Judge, on application of the Supervisor, shall declare any such Collector to be an improper "Resolved, That all fines and forfeitures incurred un-appropriated and part unappropriated. The unapder the Revenue Laws of the United States, ought to be sued for in the State Courts; unless where the Commissioner of the Revenue, under particular circumstances stated to him by the Supervisor, shall otherwise direct."

person.

propriated part he supposed would amount at least to ten millions of acres-a tract considerably larger than many large States-larger than Maryland. What number of people, said he, is necessary to people this tract of country? More than can be

[blocks in formation]

spared from other States. To bring the whole of this land forward to sale at once would overstock the market; and if you sold at all it must be at a low price to moneyed men, and it would be even doubtful whether purchasers of this class could be found sufficient.

It will, therefore, said Mr. H., be necessary to make the object of revenue productive, to proportion the quantity of land to be disposed of, to the demand. If, instead of the present plan of laying out the whole Territory, one and a half million of acres were to be set out, this quantity would sell at a good price, be soon settled, and then an additional quantity adjoining to this might afterwards be laid off, which would bring a higher price, and be bought by actual settlers. The price of land must ultimately be paid by the cultivator, and if Government can meet his wants, it will be better than referring him to second-hand dealers. There were a class of cultivators, indeed, he said, who could be accommodated only by speculators. (In speaking of speculators, he said he did not mean to cast any odium upon the character; he thought land as fair an object of speculation as coffee, or any other article of merchandise.) The operation will be this: Government offers the land for sale at a minimum price. Persons applying for land will offer their plans, explain their wants, and fresh parcels of land can be laid off as occasion requires. Though, by a plan of this kind, so much money be not raised this year or next year to the Treasury, it will be best ultimately. Had a private individual a large stock of land to dispose of, he would adopt a similar proceeding; he would sell it off in parts and reserve the remainder in his hands to meet future demands as they should arise.

In support of his argument, Mr. H. cited the example of other States which had experience in business of this kind. If the whole ten million acres were to be exposed to public sale at once, it would either not be sold at all, or fall into the hands of capitalists. The 150,000 families which have been said to be ready to settle in this country would do but little towards purchasing this land. By this plan, Government would put into the hands of capitalists, to retail on any terms they pleased, that land which it should keep in its own for the accommodation of its citizens.

The next object, Mr. H. said, was to secure such a mode of settlement as would preserve peace and good government. This, he said, would not be done by selling the whole at one time, but by selling it progressively. To offer the whole for sale at once, and let persons settle on any part of this wide extended country, would be to put them out of all government, out of all reach of the laws of society, and take away from them all power of defence. On the contrary, to limit the settlements, would be to obviate all these difficulties. It might not, however, he said, be expedient to confine settlements to one point-there might be settlements in three different parts of this land, so as to accommodate emigrants from different quarters of the United States. Besides, this plan would increase in a greater proportion the value of the remaining

[FEBRUARY, 1796.

unsold land, as each settlement would enhance the value of the land in its vicinity.

Mr. H. concluded by saying it was an important object to attend to the manner of settling this country. Perhaps, he said, the most important differences which had arisen betwixt the different States in America, was owing to the different methods adopted in their original settlement. If a settlement was commenced by degrees, order begins at first, and grows with its growth, and strengthens with its strength; but if a country be settled before any regular order takes place, if a good Government is ever established, it is by struggling with a variety of difficulties. For these reasons, he thought it of vast importance to adopt the plan he proposed, and read his resolution, the purport of which proposes to divide and subdivide the lands within certain limits, having reference principally to natural boundaries.

Mr. MACON asked if the motion was in order; he supposed it was not, as the section had already been amended. He thought it would be best to proceed with the bill, in the mode now pursued; he was sure the House would not get through the bill by next March twelve-month. He suggested to the mover the propriety of reserving his motion for the purpose of bringing it forward in the House.

The Chairman considered the motion as out of order, unless part of the amendment agreed to yesterday was first struck out. Mr. HARPER agreed to alter his motion, so that it might not interfere with that amendment, which he was not opposed to.

Mr. SWANWICK.-The only thing that appears to me to be material to inquire, is how far we have occasion for money, so as to engage us to enter into the sale of these lands. It is allowed on all hands to be a very desirable measure to pay off our Debts. The PRESIDENT has strongly recommended it in each of his Addresses to several successive Legislatures. No blame can rest upon him if it be not done; the moment appears favorable. Owing to the war in Europe all funded Debts are low in price; though we are not engaged in the war, yet our stocks feel the effect; they are even below the British in the market rate in London, according to prices lately quoted from thence, which I attribute in a great measure to the interest being payable, and the principal transferable here only. At the peace it is probable all these funds will rise, perhaps twenty-five to thirty per centum or more, beyond their actual rates; as in Britain, before the war, their three per cents. were nearly at par value; at that rate our six per cents. may be worth twenty-five to thirty shillings per pound deferred, and three per cent. in proportion. Whether lands will rise in proportion to the rise of the price of our Public Debt in the market, is uncertain. The general eagerness to sell lands, and the general idea of their present high prices, seems to indicate the contrary as the most prevalent opinion. Be this, however, as it may, I cannot see that it is less right for a nation, than it would be for an individual, to sell off his landed property to pay off

[ocr errors][merged small][merged small]

his Debts. On this principle, therefore, consulting all due fairness and publicity in the sale, and dividing the tracts so as to accommodate the greater number of purchasers in the market, I believe we shall run no risk of doing wrong in bringing these lands to sale.

[H. or R.

market. Mr. D. did not understand what the mover meant by fixing settlements in different quarters of the land to suit different parts of the United States.

Mr. HARPER explained.

Mr. NICHOLAS said it was necessary to throw land enough into the market to meet the demand. He said they had not only land to dispose of, but they had a million and a half acres of such land as could not be found anywhere else, and if they should limit purchasers to certain districts of the country, where there is good and bad land, if only one-fifth be good, four-fifths of purchasers will be discouraged. If inducements, said he, are to be held out, they must be such as cannot be resisted. Suppose, he said, they were successful in selling one and a half million of acres on the frontiers, nothing would be added to the value of the land in the interior country. The demand for good land, he said, would be certain, and all the rest would become so by settlement. With respect to civilization, so much dwelt on by the mover of the amendment, he had so little theory on the subject, that he should not have thought of introducing it. He lived, he said, where Government scarcely showed its arm, and there seemed to be no defect. The people were just, orderly, and happy; and yet this State was settled in the way which was described as introducing nothing but disorder.

Much has been said about speculators and settlers; a good deal about laying out the lands in particular divisions to suit emigrants from different States; but, however laudable I consider the views of gentlemen who have supported these ideas, yet I cannot conceive them as solid as they suppose. It is immaterial to us who buys the lands so we get a good price for them. Speculators will probably purchase, because they have capital, and can afford to give long credit on the lands; but our plan being to pay off our Debts most advantageously, we must have the money soon to effect it. I have, therefore, no fears of speculators. Their money laid out in paying off our Debts, will do us at least as much good as our lands will do them; for the moment we get our Debts paid, our revenues of seven or eight millions a year will be freed, and at our disposal; by this means we shall cease to be told that our Treasury is empty, and that we must sell off the materials of our frigates, because we cannot afford half a million of dollars to finish them. Our roads, the object of a gentleman from Virginia, can then be perfected; and our seamen, the object on which another gentleman from New York has Mr. GALLATIN said, there were two consideralaid a motion before you, will receive ample pro- tions which favored the mover's principle of bringtection. In short, nations, like individuals, are re-ing forward only a limited quantity of land at a spectable only in proportion to their resources. time for sale, which were the self-interested landIf ours are released from their actual embarrass-holders, and the fear of too great an emigration ments; if our Debts are paid, and our revenues left at our disposal, a few acres in the wilderness will have produced the great blessings of peace, union, and respectability, on the Atlantic, and the independence and sovereignty of our country will be, as it ought, properly asserted. For such purposes I think it worth while to employ the present moment of avidity to speculate in our lands, so as to clear off our Debts and produce a nett revenue to our Treasury, to be employed to the most salutary purposes of internal improvement and of exterior defence.

Mr. DAYTON said, if he approved of the principle, he should not approve of the loose manner in which the proposed amendment was drawn up. If the principle recommended in the resolution was adopted, tracts should be marked by certain lines or boundaries; but as he disapproved of the principle, he should not dwell upon the form of the resolution. He thought the arguments of the mover more specious than solid. Every one would see that by limiting the price of the land, the quantity was also limited. The settlement of land, he said, increased the value; but if purchasers be confined to a certain situation, no value will be put upon land five hundred miles distant. If the plan of the committee be adopted, he said, all the land will increase in value. Land contiguous to a settlement now not worth a dollar an acre, will then be worth two dollars. Every year a fresh quantity of land can be brought into the

from the Atlantic States to this country. He dwelt a considerable time in remarking on these two different views, and concluded with dissenting from the amendment in its present form.

Mr. HARPER replied to the several objections which had been made to his amendment. The propriety of the remarks of the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. SWANWICK] relative to the funds, derives all its force from the practicability of immediately raising a sufficient sum of money from the sale of the lands, in order to going into the market now while the funds are low; but he conceived that no gentleman had an idea that this could be suddenly done. The diminution of the Public Debt is a most desirable object; but an immediate operation to this purpose, from this source, was a thing quite out of the question.

He next noticed the remark of Mr. DAYTON, relative to sparse settlements. He said the gentleman's reasoning might apply to a comparatively small territory, but applied to a territory of twenty millions of acres, was lost. The gentleman had reference to Symmes's purchase, a tract of about 1,200,000 acres, settled by about 5,000 families. That tract had appreciated in value in consequence of the sparse settlement. But extend the idea to twenty millions of acres, and twenty times five thousand families would form but a thin settlement of the country supposed to be laid open.

His amendment, however, agreed in some mea

H. OF R.]

Loan to the City of Washington.

sure with that of the gentleman. He was in favor of a sparse settlement, so far as extended to forming three or four grand central points, round which settlements may be extended to certain limits. Mr. H. added many other observations in support of his amendment, which he defended with great ability and ingenuity.

The motion being put on the amendment, it

was lost.

The third section of the bill being read, Mr. HARPER said there was a necessity of striking out some words in order to accommodate it to the amendment passed yesterday.

Mr. WILLIAMS moved an amendment to have the lands sold by auction, in order to bring the question before the House.

Mr. NICHOLAS proposed a motion to supersede that of the last member to nearly the same effect. After several observations from different members, principally in favor of a sale by auction, the Committee rose, reported progress, and asked leave to sit again.

MONDAY, February 22.

The committee to whom was referred a bill originating in the Senate, for the amendment of an act to encourage Useful Arts, report as their opinion, that it would be inexpedient and impolitic to pass the said bill into a law.

The report was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. HEATH proposed to the House a resolution to the following effect:

"Resolved, That until a Stenographer be appointed, or further provision made for taking the debates of this House, no printer be permitted to publish abstracts of the Speeches of members, unless permitted by the members making the same."

Ordered to lie on the table.

WASHINGTON'S BIRTH-DAY.

Mr. W. SMITH moved that the House adjourn

for half an hour.

This motion occasioned a good deal of conversation upon its propriety. In favor of it, it was said, that it had been a practice ever since the commencement of the Government, for that House to make a short adjournment on that day in order to pay their compliments to the PRESIDENT, and that several members were absent, from an idea that the House would adjourn at 12 o'clock as usual. On the other hand, it was objected that it was the business of the members of that House first to do their duty, and then attend to the paying of compliments; that just at that time the house of the PRESIDENT was filled with militia and others; and that, therefore, it would be better, upon the whole, to wait upon the PRESIDENT after the business of the day was finished.

Mr. GALLATIN moved that the words "half an hour" be struck out.

The sense of the House was first taken on the amendment, which was lost, without a division. The motion was then put and negatived, being 38 for it, and 50 against it.

[FEBRUARY, 1796.

LOAN TO THE CITY OF WASHINGTON,

It was moved that the unfinished business of Friday be laid aside, to take up the consideration of the bill authorizing a loan for the use of the City of Washington.

The resolution being carried by a vote of fortyinto a Committee of the Whole, Mr. MUHLENeight against thirty-four, the House formed itself BERG in the Chair, and the first section of the bill being read, and also the resolution of the House authorizing the committee to bring in the billMr. SWIFT wished to know why the committee resolution directing them to bring in the bill. had deviated from the principles contained in the By this bill the buildings in the City of Washington are to be conveyed to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, though there were no instructions in the resolution of the House to this effect.

Mr. JEREMIAH SMITH said the lots were con

veyed to the PRESIDENT, in order to reimburse the loan authorized by the Senate, and as a security for the sum to be borrowed by the PRESIDENT, in consequence of the present bill.

Mr. BRENT said the bill was framed in a mode which the committee thought best calculated to carry into execution the resolution of the House.

Mr. SWANWICK objected to the bill on the principle, that if the United States were to accept a grant of the lots in the Federal City, they might, if they thought proper, afterwards grant such a sum as they should suppose sufficient for completing the public buildings, out of the general funds; but he was entirely against opening a loan for the special purpose; first, because he thought it degrading to the United States to have it observed in Europe, or elsewhere, that they could not complete the buildings requisite for their own immediate use, without making a loan for the purpose; and secondly, because he had no notion of superadding to the public faith any security of lots, as it might prove injurious to the United States to have loans opened in various quarters on different securities, though ultimately bottomed on the same stock, viz: the credit of the United States. On these grounds, he was for having the bill recommitted, to be new modified.

Mr. NICHOLAS offered his observations upon the bill; but from the firing of cannon, the beating of drums, &c., which took place during his speaking, in honor of the PRESIDENT's birth day, the reporter could not hear his sentiments sufficiently distinct to attempt an abridgement of them.

Mr. S. SMITH moved that the fourth section of the bill offering lots as a security of money borrowed, be struck out as altogether unnecessary.

Mr. CRABB said the lots were not offered in aid of the credit of the United States; but as a security to them for the money borrowed under their authority.

Mr. BRENT said, if this section of the bill was struck out, the object of it would be defeated. The preceding clause provides for the conveying of the lots to the PRESIDENT as a security for any sum of money he shall borrow for com

« ForrigeFortsett »