FEBRUARY, 1796.] Compensation to Members. [H. of R. ber; but, if gentlemen wished to do away the in- feasting was abolished the better.. If members cidental expenses of the office, he had no objection. wished to form social acquaintance, it was far preMr. SWIFT consented to vary his motion accord-ferable to visit each other at their lodgings. He ing to the ideas of the member from Virginia. If the Speaker had more duty to perform than other members, he should be willing to make him a greater allowance, but he doubted it. Mr. W. SMITH hoped no alteration would be made in the allowance heretofore made; he saw no reason for it. Mr. GOODHUE said, he voted against the additional pay allowed the Speaker when the act first passed, as he saw no necessity for the Speaker to give dinners to the members of that House; but though he objected to this, he was willing to allow him recompense for his additional services. He hoped, however, the gentleman who now so ably filled the office, would not consider any thing said on this subject as alluding personally to him. Mr. SEDGWICK was willing to give the money to the Speaker which had heretofore been paid him, and for the same purpose, although he and his colleague were both against the measure when it originally passed. Mr. DAYTON wished the business might be discussed without reference to him personally. Indeed he believed he should not be materially affected by any regulations which might be agreed to, as, if he might judge by his present feelings, his health would not permit him to remain in the Chair after this session. Mr. GILES was confident that no one meant to hurt the feelings of the gentleman who now filled the Chair. The member from Massachusetts had said, when the measure passed, he was against it, but now he was in favor of it. He could see no ground for this change of sentiment. Mr. G. said, he was against the money being paid for incidental expenses, but not against making the Speaker ample allowance for his services. Mr. KITCHELL was also for striking out the words, but for making ample compensation to the Speaker. Mr. BOURNE did not suppose that the incidental expenses of the Speaker were confined to the dinners which he gave them; he was put to more expense in receiving company than other members. He did not think six dollars a day too much for this. Mr. MADISON said, it was customary in all the State Governments to make the Speaker a greater allowance than other members: his services were far greater; they were uninterrupted. Besides, it was necessary to do so to invite men of talents to accept of the office; and every one knew the advantages arising from having a man of talents as Speaker. Without inquiring whether the compensation was too large or too small, he doubted whether it was Constitutional to make any alteration in it which might affect the present Speaker. To support his opinions he read a clause of the Constitution. Mr. HILLHOUSE was of opinion that nothing in the Constitution extended to the present question. He hoped they should agree to strike out the words alluded to, as the sooner the practice of said, this was the first time the law had come under review since it had passed, and it was proper to have the matter settled. He wished to allow a reasonable sum for the services of the Speaker but no more. He did not think there was any weight in the observation, that a large compensation was necessary to induce men of talents to accept of the Chair-he thought the honor was a sufficient inducement. Mr. WILLIAMS said there was no office appertaining to the Speaker which included expense; the words ought therefore to be struck out. Mr. PAGE was in favor of striking out the words, as he did not understand their meaning, but in favor of keeping the allowance of the Speaker the same as usual. The Speaker, he said, ought to be placed in an independent situation, by a handsome salary. His duties were fourfold to those of any other member. Indeed, said he, nothing but a sense of duty could induce a man to undertake such an office. Mr. GILES said, if it was agreed to strike out the words for the incidental expenses of his office, he should move to introduce in their place," on account of extra services annexed to his office." Mr. JEREMIAH SMITH liked the words proposed better than those in the bill, but did not think it of the importance it was made. The motion for striking out was put and car ried. Mr. GILES then proposed his motion. Mr. HILLHOUSE was against the introduction of these words. Mr. VARNUM hoped the motion would prevail. The services of the Speaker are extraordinary and laborious. The State Legislatures, he said, always allowed their Speaker double the pay of other members. Mr. MURRAY hoped the words would not obtain. He considered the Speakership of that House as a very elevated situation. In certain contingencies, he believed he was the Chief Executive of the United States. He thought the calculation of pay too mechanical. The dignity of the office was sufficient without extraordinary compensation; the duties of it were well known. The question was put, and negatived. Mr. GILES moved to fill up the blank for the daily allowance of members of the Senate with six dollars. Mr. PAGE proposed seven; which, after a few observations from Mr. WILLIAMS in favor of six, the sense of the House was taken, which was in favor of six dollars-only twenty-one members rising in favor of seven. The allowance of the Speaker again coming into consideration, Mr. SWIFT wished an inquiry might be made into the duties of the office. It was his opinion that many members upon committees performed greater services than he; and if the Speaker had an extra allowance, they ought to have an extra allowance also. Some gentlemen thought, on the score of dignity, a high H. OF R.] Internal Revenue. salary ought to be paid. He thought differently, Can it be supposed it would be necessary, said he, to give any member of this House double pay to accept of the office? No such thing. Being now discharged from any obligation to treat members, he could not agree to allow him the usual sum. He should not object to two or three dollars a day extra, but no more. [FEBRUARY, 1796. land was right in the principle he had laid down. No doubt the Committee of Ways and Means ought not only to give their opinion, but all the facts on which it rests. On this subject there would have been no hesitation, but for one thing. The Commissioner of the Revenue seems to be the proper officer to make the report to this House. A conference took place on the subject betwixt him and the Committee of Ways and Mr. GILES thought the duty of the Speaker three times as arduous as that of any other mem-Means. He said he had taken all the steps in his ber of the House. Mr. CRABB Voted for striking out the words, but he was not for diminishing the salary of the Speaker. The motion for the usual allowance was put and carried, and the other blanks of the bill were filled up with the same sums as heretofore allow ed to the different officers. The Committee rose; the bill then went through the House, and was ordered to be engrossed and read a third time on Monday. INTERNAL REVENUE. Mr. W. SMITH moved the order of the day on the report of the Committee of Ways and Means on the Internal Revenue. Mr. GILES objected to taking up this business until they received the information which had been asked for from the Secretary of the Trea sury. The sense of the House being taken, there appeared for consideration 36, against it 33. The House having resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole power to get the information wanted, but that it Mr. GILES gave some account of the progress of this inquiry into the state of the revenue, and complained of the length of time taken to give the information required on the subject. Until this was before the House, he doubted whether any proportion that the expense of collecting bore to gentleman was even prepared to speak as to the the revenue. He hoped that the Committee would therefore rise. be called upon for the necessary information, and Mr. HILLHOUSE hoped the proper officer would not the Committee of Ways and Means. fect, which, after a number of observations from different members on its propriety, was agreed to. Mr. S. SMITH moved that the Committee rise, as it was not in possession of the necessary information to go into the proposed inquiry. Near twelve months had elapsed, he said, since the Se-ed to the House a resolution to the following efThe Committee having rose, Mr. GILES proposcretary of the Treasury was applied to for the accounts now wanted. The resolutions which the Committee of Ways and Means report, go to newmodify the revenue laws. They may have had some information to enable them to form a judgment upon the subject which the House had not. The House cannot agree to the proposed change until they have information on the subject. If the officer of the Treasury had obeyed the order of that House given last session, they might have proceeded in the business, but at present they could not. Mr. W. SMITH had no objection to the Committee's rising. The Committee of Ways and Means, he said, had obtained information from the Commissioner of the Revenue on the subject, but that they did not think it proper to lay that information before the House, as they understood this Commissioner was preparing a more perfect account for the House. The report, he said, did not go to change the method of collecting the revenue, it went only to certain changes which they thought would materially improve the present plan. If the Committee was of the same opinion, the report might be referred back; but if the Committee wished to wait for further information, he should not object to its doing so. Mr. GALLATIN said, the gentleman from Mary Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury be directed to furnish this House with such a statement of the internal revenue of the United States as can be prepared in pursuance of a resolution of the 2d March, 1795. REFUNDING DUTIES. The order of the day being called for on a bill for affording relief to Jose Roiz Silva, in returnalso on a bill for the relief of Israel Loring, aling him an excess of duty paid on a cargo of wine, lowing him a certain drawback on certain indigo; they went through the Committee of the Whole, and through the House without amendment, and time on Monday. were ordered to be engrossed and read a third A communication was received from the Secretary of the Treasury, enclosing an account of the expenditures for the quarter closing the 31st December. BENJAMIN TITCOMB. The report of the Committee of Claims on the petition of Benjamin Titcomb, a Colonel in the late war, was read; they lament that no general re lief can be granted to him, and that to grant specia FEBRUARY, 1796.] Impressment of American Seamen. relief might be attended with bad consequences' and therefore recommend that he have leave to withdraw his petition. Mr. RUTHERFORD spoke in favor of the report of the petitioner. Mr. W. LYMAN hoped a provision would be made for this gentleman, and some others in a similar situation. There ought to be a distinction made, he said, between wounded officers and those who were fortunate enough to escape without wounds. He hoped the report would not be agreed to. [H. OF R. lieve that that House could proceed to legislate on uncertain newspaper reports. He trusted they would afford some proof who, what number, when, and where American seamen have been impressed. Until this was done, he should doubt the fact. He was heard, he believed, by Representatives from every port in the United States, and if the fact was so notorious as to need no further evidence, he doubted not some of these gentlemen would be able to give some account of the business. If the facts were established, Mr. HARPER beMr. SHERBURNE thought this petitioner might lieved there would be but one opinion on the probe provided for without infringement on the laws priety of granting relief; but before they proceedwhich militate against his claim. Indeed, he said, ited farther, some information was necessary rewould be most disgraceful to the country to turn specting the existence of this abuse. He had apa deaf ear to such a sufferer. He wished the Com- plied to the office of the Secretary of State, and to mittee to rise, as he would, on a future day, bring other offices likely to afford information on the forward the discussion whether this petitioner is subject, but he found no instance of impressmer.t not, as a wounded officer, entitled to a pension, complained of in which redress had not been givand, as serving to the end of the war, to half-pay. en. But, if any such instances did exist, in which The Committee now rose, and the House ad- relief has been applied for and not obtained, some journed. of the gentlemen from some of the seaports will be able to mention them. If not, he hoped the Committee would rise, and recommit the report. MONDAY, February 29. Mr. SWANWICK presented a petition from the manufacturers of hats in Philadelphia, together with several others from manufacturers of hats in different parts of the Union, praying that an additional duty may be laid on hats imported from Europe, in order to encourage the American manufacture; which were severally referred to the Committee of Commerce and Manufactures. Mr. LIVINGSTON said, the present measure was intended to afford relief to such of their distressed fellow-citizens as had been illegally seized on the high seas. The gentleman, he said, who brings forward objections to the proposed inquiry was in his place when the resolution upon which the report of the committee is founded passed unanimously. Why did he not then come forward? [Mr. HARPER said he was not in the House at the The bill for allowing compensation to members time.] The resolution does not direct the comof the Senate and members of the House of Re-mittee to inquire into facts; they were considered presentatives, and certain officers of both Houses; also the bill for relief for a limited time, in certain cases, of invalid registers of ships, were read a third time and passed without a division. The bill for the relief of Jose Roiz Silva, and the bill for the relief of Israel Loring, were read a third time and passed; but a division of the House being called for on each, for the former there stood up 54 members in favor of it-the negatives were not taken; for the latter, there were 43 in favor of its passing, and 27 against it. IMPRESSMENT OF AMERICAN SEAMEN. Mr. LIVINGSTON wished the order of the day to be postponed, in order to take up the report of the committee to whom was referred the resolution he had laid on the table respecting the impressment of American seamen; which being agreed to, the House went into a Committee of the Whole. Mr. HARPER had hoped when this resolution was committed to a select committee, some statements would have been brought forward, some facts produced, upon which to found the proposed inquiry. The committee have reported that they do not think it necessary to adduce any particular instances in which American seamen have been impressed by foreign nations-the facts, they alleged, are too notorious to require particularizing. He could not suppose these gentlemen would be as notorious, and nothing seemed necessary but to fix upon the best mode of furnishing relief. The Legislature of the United States have formerly had evidence, and they have acted upon it. If the gentleman will look into the proceedings of the last session of Congress, he will find a considerable sum granted to Mr. Cutting, for the relief of this distressed body of men. Some he relieved, others he did not. When the dignity of the nation, said he, is insulted, in the persons of our fellow-citizens, it is necessary at least to make inquiry into their sufferings. A remark had fallen, Mr. L. said, from the member from South Carolina, which he wished to notice. He said he had applied to the office of the Secretary of State, and found there no complaint which had not been redressed. Now, he had waited upon the Secretary of State, as Chairman of the committee, in vain for information on this subject. He informed him that he could not give him the evidence which it appears he has given to the member from South Carolina. How, he wished to know, happened it that a member who opposes the inquiry in question should be furnished with that information which is denied to a member who supports it? It is said, added Mr. L., that we are attempting to legislate without evidence. Though no facts are at present before the House, it is notorious that numerous instances have been made known to H. or R.] Impressment of American Seamen. [FEBRUARY, 1796. to work the guns of the English frigate; and on their expostulating, that though they were prisoners, they did not wish to work the guns, they were threatened with whipping; and the Captain was told, if he interfered, he should be whipped and sent home to England in irons. If he had thought facts were wanting, by a single advertisement in one of the Philadelphia papers they would have been overpowered with facts. But, if he had done so, he supposed he should have been charged with Government, and the present measure is meant to inquire into the cases of sufferers, and remedy them as far as possible. It is admitted by the member from South Carolina that facts have existed, but that they have been removed. If these grievances, then, said he, have existed, let us prevent them in future. Let us not wait till it is too late to grant relief. The men, said he, who suffer by the depredations complained of, are at a great distance from their homes and friends in foreign ports, dragged on board tenders, and made to ex-raising dissatisfaction in the minds of the people, perience every hardship which can be conceived; and now, when a mode is proposed for the relief of these distressed citizens, evidence is called for! If one of these men is confined in the East Indies, can evidence of his bondage be expected to be given here? Such hardships have existed, and it was their business to prevent them from again occurring. He hoped, therefore, the Committee would not rise, as he trusted there was sufficient evidence on which to ground the inquiry. Mr. HARPER wished to remark, on what had fallen from the member from New York, on the Secretary of State's refusing information to certain members and giving it to others. He applied to the office of the Secretary of State, to learn whether there were any documents there to support the proposed inquiry, and was informed there were only two cases; in one of which application was made to the British Government. Four persons were said to have been impressed; but, on inquiry it appeared that two of them were British subjects, and the other two had enlisted into the service. The other complaint came to the office when the Secretary of State was much engaged in other concerns, but he believed relief was granted. This, he said, was verbal information. He had applied for written documents on the subject, and doubted not he should receive them as soon as other business would permit. Mr. LIVINGSTON said, some observations had been made by him which implicated the Secretary of State. Those observations, he said, arose from the manner in which the member from South Carolina had mentioned his having received information from the Secretary of State's office. He had said that he had learnt from the office certain particulars which he himself had not been able to learn. If the gentleman had explained the manner in which he had gained the information at first, it would have prevented him from making a charge which appeared to him, at the time, but too well founded. Mr. BOURNE said, the member from New York must know that the Secretary of State had said that he would prepare the information wanted as soon as other business would give him time. Mr. LIVINGSTON explained, and said that he had not complained that the information he applied for was refused, but delayed. Mr. SWANWICK said, the member from South Carolina had called for information: he conceived no particular information necessary. He could mention an instance in which he had immediate concern. A vessel of his, going to the West Indies, had all her hands taken out of her, and obliged or with encouraging Jacobinical principles: he therefore did not do it. But, without going out of the walls of the House, he said, he found evidence sufficient. He read an extract from the communication of the Secretary of State, dated March 2, 1794, in which were mentioned the representations made by sundry merchants of Philadelphia (of whom he was one) respecting the impressments of American seamen. This document was thought sufficiently strong to make an article of instruction to Mr. Jay in his late negotiation; but, owing to certain difficulties, no specific agreement was entered into by him for their relief. The plan now before the House, said Mr. S., is intended to remedy the difficulties which have been urged as obstacles in this business, by opening registers in which to enter every American seaman, by which may be known, at any time, the number of seamen belonging to the United States, and by means of which every such seaman would be possessed of a certificate of his citizenship. The object of the Committee, said Mr. S., is that the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES shall send agents to England and the West Indies, in order to afford relief to any American citizens who may have been illegally seized. Every one knows, said he, what has been felt on account of American seamen carried into Algiers. No evidence was required with respect to their numbers, or how they were employed. The united exertions of the whole American people seemed to cry out for their releasement, and the business at length has been effected. And let us not, said he, attend to our distressed citizens in one part, but in all parts of the world. Let us not, he said. be too nice about evidence. These men are generally ignorant, and cannot give the necessary information: he thought, however, they had information sufficient for legislating upon in the present case. He hoped, therefore, the report would not be recommitted, until the committee had discussed the subject. Mr. TRACY believed that every member in that House felt the propriety of extending the benefit of the laws to every class of citizens, and to none more than to American seamen. Some members seemed to suppose that the distresses of American seamen have been looked upon with apathy; but if due attention had been paid to the efforts of Government, it would have been seen that they had always been duly attended to. It was well known that great difficulties arose when it was attempted to distinguish between English and American seamen. This has been the reason why ample regulations have not always taken place. He hoped FEBRUARY, 1796.] Impressment of American Seamen. the Government would be popular, and that the new members in the House would assist the old ones to render it more and more so; but thought the Government ought not to be charged with apathy without giving due attention to what Government had done. Mr. T. proceeded to take notice of the resolutions proposed in the report. He inquired what good the agent to be sent to Great Britain would do? Are their seamen, said he, employed at but one place? Had not the United States Consuls at every port, and can they not do the business? He wished for information on the subject. A great part of the seamen were foreigners, he said, and it would be very difficult to separate them. If the plan proposed, however, can be made to appear to be beneficial, he would heartily join in effecting the desired relief to the class of citizens alluded to. Mr. GOODHUE said, the member from New York, on bringing forward this subject, had charged Government with looking upon the distresses of American seamen with apathy, and blushed on account of its conduct towards them. He represented, he believed, twenty times the number of American seamen that that gentleman represented. He was himself, indeed, formerly a seaman; yet he did not believe the evil complained of existed to any alarming degree. Mr. Cutting, it had been said, had relieved many seamen; that was in the year 1790. Last Summer, the British took many vessels bound to France, but they did not take the crews. There were some instances, he said, in which seamen had been impressed, and he should be in favor of every necessary step to afford them relief. But no obloquy should be thrown on the Government. Neither does the evil exist to the extent it might have been supposed when the subject was brought forward. A member from Pennsylvania had mentioned a particular instance: he could mention a particular instance of a French officer who had so ill-treated some American seamen as to be cashiered, on a representation being made to the French Government. [H. OF R. mover draw into unfavorable question the conduct of the Secretary of State, and indulge himself in some severe reflections and imputations upon that officer. Mr. D. ascribed it to an irritability—and perhaps an honest irritability-upon this subject. so affecting and interesting to Americans. He ascribed it to a warmth of temper in which, in this particular case, the cooler judgment of that gentleman, and the knowledge of the real character and conduct of the Secretary of State, had no agency or influence. The expressions which had been uttered by some gentlemen, in the course of the discussion, tending to charge our Government with a criminal apathy and indifference, towards this description of citizens, did by no means, Mr. D. said, meet with his approbation. He believed them to be unfounded; for he was persuaded that whenever it was informed, it did whatever it could to relieve the seamen of the United States, and to obtain for those who unfortunately needed it, complete redress. Having said thus much in vindication of the conduct of the Government, he returned to the resolution itself, and declared himself its advocate. It contained, neither in its words nor spirit, any imputation upon the Executive, of the sort hinted at. The question was, simply, whether the seamen of America should, when impressed by foreigners, wait the slow process of a representation of their situation to the Government in the American metropolis, or be furnished with a protector in every country, and almost in every port. In the former case, every one must perceive it more than possible, that owing to distance and the time which must consequently be expended in the communication to and remonstrance from our Government, an American citizen might be impressed and compelled to serve months-perhaps years-in a service which he detested, and possibly forced to apply the match to cannon charged with balls, aimed for the destruction of his friends. Mr. D. said, he rose principally to inquire whether the plan proposed by the committee was the Mr. DAYTON (the Speaker) said, that he had most effectual one. He wished to hear from the not expected an opposition to the resolution under Chairman, or some other member, whether they consideration on the ground of fact; that he could had attended to the circumstance of our having not have supposed any member would have ques- Consuls in many ports, and had weighed the protioned the existence of the evils which the propo- priety of investing them with the powers in quessitions were calculated to remedy. He entertained tion. These officers appeared, at first view, the a belief that the impressments of American sea-most fit and convenient for the purpose, on account men, particularly on board of British ships of war, of their number, their situation, and the saving of was a matter of too great notoriety to need any expense. evidence at this time. But the member from South Carolina, who manifested the most zealous opposition to these measures, had admitted that there had existed instances of this sort: and as it must follow that what had once existed might again exist, it behooved Congress to make provisions tending to prevent, or at least most speedily and efficaciously to remedy, them. Mr. D. declared, that he heartily approved the object of the resolution as originally proposed by the member from New York, and the general principles of the report founded thereon, as a question of humanity, and of great national policy. It was, however, with pain that he heard the worthy Mr. BOURNE said it appeared, on inquiry, that the United States had no Consul in the West Indies, and that as Consuls received no salary for their services, it was thought best to appoint a person specially to undertake the business in question. He believed, however, that the duty ought to devolve on Consuls in Great Britain, as it is the duty of Consuls to relieve distressed seamen wherever they may be found. This may be done with much less expense and with more efficacy. With regard to the information on the subject, Mr. B. said, it did not appear that any considerable number of seamen had been impressed lately, or since the negotiation of Mr. Jay. In that ne |