APRIL, 1796.]

Debt due Bank of the United States.

pect of our being able to do. The necessity of those anticipations cannot cast any imputation on the administration. of the Government; it arose from the necessity of the case. There was no revenue arising to this Government at the time of its formation; laws were to be ma e and put in operation, which could not be done so as to bring much money into the Treasury short of one year; during that period the expenses of Government were going on, and could not be paid but by Loan in anticipation of the revenue. It was also found necessary to give a credit to the merchants who were to pay the duties; but, as the expenses of each year were nearly equal to the whole amount of the impost on the goods imported in one year, and the other revenues of the United States, this credit could not be given without the aid of these temporary Loans of the Bank. It has also been found necessary, from time to time, to extend the term of credit which is now in some cases eighteen months, which has also increased the amount of the anticipations, and although the amount is almost four millions of dollars, it by no means follows that our expenses exceed our income; for it appears by the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, that there is a much larger sum due to the United States on Custom-house Bonds. The gentleman [Mr. GALLATIN] admits that over and above all the money that will come into the Treasury during the present year, which the Secretary of the Treasury reports would be sufficient to discharge the current expenses of the Government, $1,200,000 will be wanted to discharge an instal ment of our Foreign Debt, and instalments at the Banks for the Algerine Loan, &c.; but it ought to be remembered, that the report of the Secretary of the Treasury is founded upon the idea of funding those anticipations, and thereby liberating all the money that shall come into the Treasury during the year; but, if that is not done, he wished to know from what quarter money was to be obtained for the current expenses of the year. It has been said the annual revenues of the United States are only to be estimated to amount to the money actually received into the Treasury. This did not correspond with his understanding of the matter. He had always supposed the revenue of each year was to the amount of the duties secured at the Custom-house, for goods imported within the year, and it might as well be said that an individual who rents a house for $1,000, and takes a bond payable in eighteen months, has no income or rent for that year, because the payment is postponed. The same gentleman [Mr. GALLATIN] had stated that since the establishment of this Government the expenditure had exceeded the revenue, so that upon the whole we had, instead of lessening our Debt, in fact increased it at $4,500.000. This was an idea, Mr. H. said, wholly different from what he had ever conceived to have been the case. He had supposed that notwithstanding the extraordinary expense of the Algerine Loan, Indian wars, insurrections, &c., we had, in fact, paid a part of our Debt, and he thought no other document need be resorted to to prove it, but the report of the Secre4th CoN.-31

[H. or R.

tary of the Treasury in his hand, made the present session, which states that the nett amount of revenue from imports and tonnage, fines and forfeitures, exclusive of the expense of collection and other charges, was $1,615,574 paid for drawbacks from the 1st of January, 1794, to the 1st of January, 1795, amounted to $6,717,510, and that there was due, on hand, and in the hands of Collectors, $6.922,631; suppose a further deduction of $1,500,000 is made for drawbacks on that year, yet there will still remain a sum much more than sufficient to reimburse the $4,500,000 which that gentleman says has been added to our Debt. There is no reason to suppose the revenue of last year will fall short of that of the preceding year. It is said, if the anticipations are funded, our Debts will be increased, it will be putting off the evil day, and this country may expect to experience all the evils which have embarrassed the European nations; but the fact is far otherwise, for if these anticipations are funded, and not a shilling of the principal of our Foreign Debt shall be paid, and provision only is made for carrying into effect the act of last Congress, which he had no doubt would be done, in 1818 we shall have paid upwards of $30,000,000 of the principal of our present Debt, which does, and will bear an interest of six per cent., and in 1824, we shall have paid the whole of our present six per cent. and Deferred Debt, amounting to $43,872,790, and all the interest on the remaining Domestic and Foreign Debt, a pretty large proportion of the Debt to be paid by the present generation, who have also borne the burden of war, which has established and secured our independence, and would leave no just cause of complaint to future generations. If the money could be raised without great inconvenience, he should be very glad to pay the whole Debt; but he had no idea of resorting to direct, or any other taxes, that would be very burdensome to the people, for the sake of paying it off a few years sooner.

The gentleman [Mr. GALLATIN] says, that if 2.000,000 dollars per annum, additional revenue, was to be raised, that, in a certain number of years, it would discharge the anticipation, and the whole Foreign Debt; that amounts only to saying, if we had the money to pay the Debt, we should not have to pay the interest, for the sum proposed to be raised, with the interest thereon, amounts to exactly the sum the gentleman says could be discharged. As more than 2,000,000 dollars of our present revenue will be liberated in the year 1818, by the discharge of the present six per cent. Debt, and as the instalments of our Foreign Debt are falling due every year, and it is possible we may be obliged to borrow, and have no other resort but to the Bank, he should be for filling up the blank with 5,000,000 dollars, and thereby enabling the Bank to lend, if the money should be wanted. This expedient will not be resorted to, unless necessary, and cannot be resorted to but with the consent of all branches of the Government.

The Committee now rose, and had leave to sit again.

H. OF R.]

Cherokee Treaty-Execution of Treaties.

WEDNESDAY, April 13.

The bill for regulating intercourse with the Indian tribes was read a third time, the blanks filled up, and passed.

Mr. TRACY wished to take up the amendments of the Senate authorizing the Secretary at War to place certain persons on the pension list.

Mr. CHRISTIE wished the order of the day to be postponed, that the House might resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union.

Mr. TRACY said he was as much in favor of going into the question of the state of the Union as the gentleman who proposed it could be; but he said the business he proposed to the consideration of the House, he believed would not occupy many minutes.

The business was therefore taken up, and the amendments agreed to.

CHEROKEE TREATY.

Mr. HARPER said, they had this morning passed a bill containing strong, but necessary measures to prevent future infractions of the Treaty lately concluded with the Cherokee Indians. In order effectually to prevent this, he believed it would be desirable to do away all cause of complaint from those persons who had claims upon the land ceded to the Indians by Treaty. For this purpose he laid the following resolutions on the table:

[APRIL, 1796.

by which he would prove that they were now in a better state than they were in 1791 by two millions.

Mr. SMITH had not permission to read his statement; and after some observations from Messrs. HARPER, SEDGWICK, and GILBERT, against going into a state of the Union, and from Messrs. GILES, SWANWICK, and GALLATIN, in favor of it, the latter gentleman, noticing what had fallen from Mr. SMITH with respect to the financial question, saying that, as he had no other object than truth in view, he challenged discussion on the subject, at the same time expressing his confidence in the truth of his statements, the question was put and carried for going into Committee on the state of the Union.

EXECUTION OF TREATIES.

The House having resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the UnionMr. SEDGWICK proposed the following resolution:

Resolved, That provision ought to be made by law for carrying into effect, with good faith, the Treaties lately concluded between the Dey and Regency of Algiers, the King of Great Britain, the King of Spain, and certain Indian tribes Northwest of the Ohio."

Several gentlemen rose together to object to this resolution. It was complained of both with respect to its matter and to the manner in which it was introduced. To its matter, as connecting Resolved, That all persons now holding lands under all the Treaties together; to its manner, because grants from the State of North Carolina, in the terri-introduced before the Chairman had read any tory of the United States south of the Ohio, and be- papers relative to the subject. yond the boundary line between the United States and the Indians, shall be entitled to receive in exchange for an equal quantity of their lands, 320 acres each in the territory of the United States Northwest of the Ohio, on their respectively settling there, and continuing to reside for the term of

Resolved, That all persons holding as aforesaid shall be permitted to subscribe their lands in the Loan for the Domestic Debt of the United States at the rate of twenty-five dollars per hundred acres, and on the same terms with the present unsubscribed Debt, provided that such subscription shall not entitle any subscriber to a certificate till the whole lands so granted as aforesaid, shall have been subscribed or exchanged.

Mr. CHRISTIE renewed his motion to go into Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union.

Mr. W. SMITH was against agreeing to the motion, though he was aware of the necessity of an early attention to the subject, until the important financial business before the House was gone through. He was the more desirous of going into the business of finance from the very long representation which had been gone into by the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. GALLATIN] yesterday; a representation tending to mislead the public, and which he thought it his duty flatly to contradict, and to show that his calculations and conclusions were totally unfounded. If it was, however, determined to go into Committee on the state of the Union, he wished to be permitted to read a statement of their finances,

Mr. GALLATIN called for the reading of the Spanish Treaty, as he hoped that would be the first determined upon, as it would be likely to meet with no opposition. He had also other reasons for wishing it; it was a Treaty in which his constituents were particularly interested; he wished it, also, that a false idea which had been industriously spread in that country might be done away, viz: "That except all the Treaties were carried into effect, no one could be put into execution:" which idea was implied in the several petitions which then lay upon the table from the Western country.

Some conversation took place on the point of order, but the Chairman, at length, having declared the resolution in order

Mr. GILES said he thought it was right for the Committee to take up what business it chose. He would make a motion to do away this hasty proceeding. He expected some decent respect to the feelings of gentlemen in conducting this business, and not that a gentleman would have laid a proposition on the table before the Chairman had taken his seat. The motion he should make would be to postpone the present resolution for the purpose of taking up the Spanish Treaty. He was persuaded the Committee could not be forced into the business. He thought eac. subject proper for a separate resolution; he had no notion of legislating by the lump.

Mr. SEDGWICK observed that other gentlemen had feelings as well as the gentleman from Vir

APRIL, 1796.]

ginia.

He hoped the members of that House would be treated, at least for some time, as if they had equal rights. A motion was made to go into Committee on the state of the Union; they resolved themselves into a Committee; any man who got first possession of the floor had a right to make any proposition with regard to any subject before the Committee. A motion was made by him that the Committee do come to a certain resolution; that resolution was then properly because four propositions were connected together, fore the Committee. If the gentleman from Virginia had a resolution more proper or more congenial to his feeling, he might introduce it, when the Committee had disposed of the one on the table; but there it was, and he claimed the right, and this right he would exercise, of having this resolution acted upon; nor would he admit that there should be any other proposition introduced until that was disposed of.

Mr. W. LYMAN asked if this was a proceeding worthy of a Legislative body? He hoped there would be no such haste as had been shown upon this occasion. Was there to be a scramble for business? If gentlemen persisted in following the course they had taken, there was a way of disposing of the resolution. The Committee had the power to rise, and he presumed it would be in order to make a motion to postpone the present question to a day certain. He said, if the British Treaty would not bear examination, it was not to be forced upon their understandings whether or

not.

Mr. WILLIAMS said that it was unfortunate for them when they were about to discuss one of the most important questions which ever came before that House, a question, perhaps, upon which the fate of the country depended. On a subject of such importance, it became their duty to harmonize with one another, and, by discussing the business coolly, determine upon the best mode of disposing of it for the good of their country. How were they to proceed in business, if so much heat was discovered? Nothing could be done. He wished coolness and good temper to be their guide. Let them go into the business with calmness and moderation, and then, he trusted, they should come out of it as they ought.

Mr. GALLATIN said, if they were in the House, instead of a Committee of the Whole, they might get rid of the motion, cither by the previous question, or by postponement; in a Committee of the Whole, other rules were in force, and if a proposition was made to them, they could not refuse to debate it. There were two ways, however, of getting rid of the thing. They might give their negative to the proposition, merely beor they might amend it by striking out three of the Treaties. Before he sat down, he meant to give reasons for adopting either of those two modes. His objections rose merely from the four Treaties being connected together. He had been a good deal surprised to hear a gentleman from Connecticut say, that the Treaties were so connected, that if one was not carried into effect, he should be justified in withholding his vote from the rest. Had the gentleman forgotten that he was in duty bound to carry every one of them into effect? That if he did not do it, it would be a breach of good faith-nay, of the Constitution? That he had no discretion on the subject? But was impelled by moral obligation to execute any Treaty whatever? Mr. G. was not, therefore, at all alarmed at these threats, for he knew, that whatever gentlemen's opinions were, they could not, consistently with their principles, refuse to give their sanction to all and every of the Treaties before them. But leaving altogether what may be the opinion of any gentleman in the House, let them see what was the opinion of the House itself. It was that, whenever a Treaty contained Legislative provisions, its execution depended on laws to be passed by Congress, and that, in all such cases, it was the Constitutional right and duty of the House to deliberate on the expediency of carrying the Treaty into effect.

This being the solemn resolution of that House, it was contrary to that idea to say, they would blend all the Treaties together. That House would carry into effect the Treaty with Great Britain, that with Spain, or either of them, or none of them, as it should appear expedient or inexpedient. The resolution proposed by the gentleman from Massachusetts was perfectly conMr. HILLHOUSE said, it appeared to him that sistent with his own opinion, for believing the they were contending about nothing. He would House under an obligation to carry into effect all as soon have the Spanish Treaty first brought the Treaties, he had put them all in one resoluforward as any other. No man, he believed, had tion. If there were twenty instead of four, upon any objection to that Treaty, but he had objec- his principles, they might all be placed in one tions against taking up one and leaving others. resolution; but the House had solemnly declared At the same time, he was willing to take up the a different opinion, viz: that it was the right of Spanish Treaty first, as it was altogether unim- this House to deliberate on Treaties; whence it portant which way it was done. It was in their follows, that each must be deliberated upon sepapower to agree to them singly, though they were rately. But, according to the ideas of the gentleunited in one resolution. There would be a de- man from Connecticut, instead of making the gree of impropriety in separating them, or in re-Treaties before them matters of deliberation, they jecting one and not the other; indeed, if one was rejected, he should think himself justified in voting against the others. They were subjects which were connected together, and if no other gentleman connected them, he would; but there could not be a final determination upon the resolution, until all the subjects were discussed.

were to become matters of barter. He hoped the House would spurn at such doctrine, and that they should debate each Treaty by itself, and determine upon them as they shall judge proper. He would propose an amendment, which, if in order, he should move; if not, the Chairman would inform him. It was as follows:

"Resolved, That, in the opinion of this Committee, it is expedient to pass the laws necessary for carrying the Treaty with Spain into effect."

Some conversation took place with respect to order, without any determination upon it.

Mr. MACON said, there would be an awkward circumstance arise from all the Treaties being in one resolution. They would be debated upon together, and a member would always be in order when speaking to any one of them, for that they should never be able to get through the business. Mr. SEDGWICK said, he had no intention of cramping the Committee in their discussions, but he did think that all the Treaties were part of the same subject, and he did not see why provision was not necessary for the whole. He did not think there was any inconsistency in the opinion of the gentleman from Connecticut. If, said Mr. S., they were asked to provide for particular officers in the army, would they consider themselves under obligation to provide for them separately? No; they would refuse to vote for them individually, nor could they be charged with impropriety if they withheld their assent until the whole army was provided for by appropriations. The whole of the Treaties were one great complex subject, and a separation of them, so as finally to deny a provision as to the one which was concerted, would be the ruin of the country. Because he conceived the public faith pledged, would it be said that there was necessity for his voting for any bill, however in itself objectionable, which could be brought before him? No such thing. To carry one of the Treaties into effect, without the other, would be sacrificing the interests of one part of the country to those of another. He was, there fore, for keeping them together. He would never consent to consider one separately. He had expressed himself, he said, with some warmth upon the subject, because he thought gentlemen were going farther than they ought. He believed the Treaties had not been read in the Committee. He hoped they would be read.

Mr. GILES objected to any Treaty being read at present, unless it was that with Spain.

Mr. HARTLEY allowed that the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. GALLATIN] was right in wishing to take up the Spanish Treaty, as one in which his constituents were most concerned. He thought it of most consequence to take up the British Treaty. By refusing to take up this Treaty, gentlemen would be responsible for the consequences which might follow to their country.

The first of June, he said, was fast approaching. It would be expected that they should do something towards completing the business. The inhabitants in the large seaports were deeply interested in the Treaty with Britain, then why should it be deferred because the people on the Ohio wished the Spanish Treaty to be attended to? It was thought they were going to consider this Treaty several days ago; but if they did not now proceed to consider it, he should think they did not mean to carry it into effect.

Mr. ISAAC SMITH wished they might get into some kind of order. He thought the British

[APRIL, 1796.

Treaty was most important. If they were to separate them he should, therefore, wish that to be taken up.

Some o servations were made with respect to order, and a reading of papers was called for.

Mr. JEREMIAH SMITH said, the object before them was a general proposition of four members. The general proposition was, that laws should be provided for carrying into effect the Treaties lately concluded with the Dey and Regency of Algiers, the King of Great Britain, the King of Spain, and certain Indian tribes. Now certain papers are laid on the table; if they meant the proposition before them as general, or otherwise, the papers ought certainly to be read. He did not differ from gentlemen in opinion, that the subject ought to be divided; he believed a divisioa would be proper. He conceived that where there were four Treaties, there might be cases in which he might vote for three of them, and not for a fourth, or for a less number. There would, therefore, certainly be a propriety in considering the subjects separately. But there was no difficulty in doing this: there was a rule of the House which provided, that any member may call for the division of a question, and when it is so called for, the question, if it will admit of it, must be divided. He should vote for carrying into effect all the Treaties; but if any gentleman was of opinion that some of the Treaties were binding and others not binding, it would be proper to call for a division of the question. He thought the Treaty with Great Britain equally binding with the rest. Those who thought differently would wish the question to be divided. If the resolution was not divided the Treaty with Algiers would be first in order, and that would first be concluded upon; then that with Great Britain, and so on. This, he believed, the most regular mode to be pursued, that the sense of the House might be taken upon each proposition, whilst the resolution itself remained undivided.

Mr. GILES said, the gentleman last up had pointed out a mode which would suit himself, but which would not suit others. For his own part, he believed it perfectly in order to negative the whole proposition, and replace it with another. They had no table in this Committee, they made no minutes; they might, therefore, negative it in point of form, and introduce another. He had no doubt of the propriety of such a proceeding, since that Committee was meant to debate on certain propositions, and these were to be carried into law. He would remark, that the amendment proposed by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. GALLATIN,] was a substitute for the present, and was worded according to the doctrine supported by the majority on a late question, whereas the present resolution is adapted to the opinions of the minority upon that occasion. He hoped, therefore, the Committee would negative this proposition, and bring forward another. The genileman last up had called the several Treaties different members of the same body, but he believed each to be a distinct and independent body.

Mr. SEDGWICK said, he would vary his motion.

and call for the reading of papers respecting the Treaty with the Dey of Algiers. But he would ask gentlemen, if they were determined to bring forward a separate resolution, if they did not see that he or any other member could move to add the other Treaties to it, and to bring it into its present form? He did not know whence arose all this violence-all this squeamishness. Gentlemen, said he, suppose they are a majority; they bring forward propositions, and endeavor to suppress any but such as are consonant to their own opinions. Whenever they brought forward a proposition for a division of a subject which he thought in its nature connected, he should move to amend it. They had the same rights in this case, and they might amend his motion in any manner which should render it conformable to the opinion of the majority.

[H. of R.

gentleman who just sat down perfectly seasonable. He wished the Treaties might be read in the order in which they stood in the resolution. He saw no reason why they should take up the Spanish Treaty first. They came there to legislate for the whole and not a part of the Union. Why not, then, open the river St. Lawrence as well as the river Mississippi?

Mr. PAGE rose to remark upon what fell from the gentleman from Rhode Island. He recommended the reading of the Algerine Treaty, in order to cool the heat of the Committee. He would remark that gentlemen seemed warm, though he did not believe they were so. He hoped when gentlemen talked so much of candor, that they would come into those measures in which they were all agreed. When the subject of the British Treaty came up, he assured the gentleman from Massachusetts he would listen with the greatest attention for any length of time, whilst he held up to view the merits of that Treaty; though, as time was becoming very precious, he believed it would not be well to employ much of it in that way, as he feared it would be all in vain.

Mr. VENABLE had no objection to taking up any of the Treaties. He did not know what the gentleman last up meant by violence. He exhibited as much violence as any member in that House. He saw no occasion for unnecessary warmth. The subjects before them would be determined by a majority, and he doubted not that Mr. MURRAY said, that the question before the determination would be for the good of the Unit- Committee was, whether the Algerine or the ed States. If the House took up the Treaty with Spanish Treaty should be first considered. For Algiers, he doubted not it would be immediately his part, he wished to unite the whole of the four agreed to. He wondered how the gentleman Treaties in one view, as they were collectively a could conceive they could go into all the Trea- system in which the whole Union were interestties, containing twenty or thirty articles each. ed. But he cared little which was first considered Would not such a medley of matter occasion much if they are disunited. He said, that so very imconfusion in their discussions? It certainly would. portant was it, in his mind, that a decision of It was in vain, he said, to attempt to force the some sort should be immediately pronounced by Committee upon discussions which they did not the House upon the British Treaty, that he had dewish to enter upon. It could not be done. Why termined not to occupy any time in adding to the then so strenuous, why so warm, after having number of debaters for the last ten days, on the brought forward an improper proposition? He other business of Congress, one instance excepthoped the Committee would proceed with inode-ed. He said, that, by the British Treaty, arrangeration for his part, he trusted he should so farments are to be made with the Governor General remain master of himself as to preserve an equa- of Canada for the delivery of the Western posts nimity of temper on this and every other discus- before the 1st of June. This day is the 13th of sion in that House. April; and we are consuming that time, which is every minute of it pledged to great events, in frivolous and entangling preliminary questions.

Mr. W. LYMAN objected to the Algerine Treaty being taken up at present. He wished to see the Treaties brought forward separately, and would not consent to take them up in any other way. He should, therefore, move that the Committee rise, in order to dispose of the gentleman's resolution, and bring forward each subject distinctly.

Mr. BOURNE said, the gentleman last up had suggested the propriety of the Committee's rising. He thought it was improper that the Committee should rise. They were upon a subject of the first importance of any which perhaps was ever discussed in that House. That they should commence the discussion with so much heat was unfortunate. He should wish, if it was for no other purpose than to give gentlemen time to collect themselves and lay aside their acrimony, that the papers which had been called for might be read. The papers appertaining to any of the Treaties would occupy all the time they had now left before the usual hour of adjournment.

Mr. WILLIAMS thought the observations of the

The public expectation is, that on the 1st of June the posts are to be delivered. He implored gentlemen on all sides to take a question that is to settle our national faith, the interests of the Union, and the expectation of the public. Time is too precious, as that Treaty will be affected by it, to be thus wasted. Any decision will be better than a debate which may violate a Treaty in deciding its merits. The minds of members, he believed, had sufficiently viewed the subject. If there is a majority against the execution of the Treaty, it was in vain to dispute about the ceremonies of its condemnation. The Treaty ought in good faith to be executed; but. at all events, it will be most consistent with an explicit character to decide early what must be decided before the 1st of June. He would vote for every measure to come to a quick decision.

Mr. CRABB said, he should not hesitate to declare that, from present impressions, he was disposed to pass the necessary laws to carry into ef