H. OF R.]

Execution of Treaties.

[APRIL, 1796.

tived; and he would then move to strike out the words "several Treaties." in order to replace it. with the word "Treaty." When that question was decided, they could say which of the Treaties should be taken up first.

fect all T eaties specified in the resolution introduced by the gentleman from Massachusetts; yet he felt it also his duty to say, that if gentlemen tenaciously insisted on the resolution as it now stood. and would not consent that the question should be divided, and if there was no rule of the Mr. HILLHOUSE hoped the Committee would House by which it could be divided, so as to take rise. He had no objection to taking up the Spanthe sense of the Committee fairly on each sepa-ish Treaty first. He was willing to have the rate and distinct Treaty, then, he said, in that Treaties in separate resolutions; but he hoped case, he should be constrained to vote against the gentlemen would consent to go through all the resolution, for the purpose of introducing others Treaties before the sense of the Committee was more proper; for he never would, on this nor any taken on the resolution. If the Spanish Treaty other occasion, give his sanction to so unprece- was first considered, he should vote for it ; except dented and improper a procedure. Was it rea- he saw something different respecting the British sonable, was it decent, that the Committee of the Treaty from what he then saw, he should vote Whole House should be called upon, and thus for it; but if any one of them was struck out, or pressed to vote and decide on four great import- refused to be carried into effect, he should vote ant national questions, couched in one short reso- against the others. And he hoped he should be lution, and that resolution expressed in language able to make his conduct appear consistent in the by no means unexceptionable? Gentlemen have course of the business. He hoped they should said that this (heterogeneous) mode of procedure treat the subject with candor, and in a way in was right, as the Treaties must all be considered which every man might have an opportunity of as one connected subject, and must stand or fall exercising his opinion-as a majority in that all together. He wished to know how long this House had never yet prevented a minority from discovery had been made, and from whence arose being heard in defence of their sentiments. If it this strange opinion? Suppose, he said, the PRE- were the opinion of the majority of that House BIDENT and Senate had rejected the British Trea- that three of the Treaties should be rejected, he ty, would it have followed that they must have would vote against the fourth. He hoped the rejected all the rest? Committee would rise, and would not object to taking up the Spanish Treaty first in order tomorrow.

Again: suppose they had not approved of the Spanish Treaty after ratifying the British Treaty, would it follow they could not have rejected it because they had ratified the other? Where was this link of connexion, then? This was new doctrine, indeed, such as he trusted would never be admissible within these walls. Such an improper, irregular introduction of business of the utmost importance, he hoped would never be countenanced or admitted. Decency, order, and propriety forbid it.

Mr. GILES said, what gave rise to the present discussion was, whether the Treaty with Spain should be first taken up; yet it was extraordinary, though gentlemen were complaining of a want of time, what was said did not relate to that point.

Mr. GALLATIN said, the question was, whether the Treaty with Algiers should be read. He should object to it for two reasons: First, they were not in a situation to enable them to determine upon it, the papers communicated by the PRESIDENT relative to it being confidential, and referred to a select committee, who had not yet made a report. They had only the amount of the gross sum of money required. When the committee had reported it would be time enough to take up that subject. But he objected to reading any papers in this stage of the business, because he did not think they could elucidate the subject of debate. The subject immediately before them was not whether the Treaty with Algiers, or any other Treaty, should be carried into effect, but whether they would consider the four Treaties together, or each of them by itself. The papers called for could throw no light on the decision of that question. He hoped, therefore, the motion for papers should be withdrawn or nega

The question for the Committee's rising was taken, when there appeared for it 44, against it 46.

Mr. GILES said, he should move to strike out all the words after "Resolve," that the resolution might be filled up with other words. As gentlemen had thought proper to anticipate their votes upon the British Treaty, he would say, that he should vote against it. He hoped the Committee would adopt the proposition he had made, in order to have the resolution differently worded.

Mr. SEDGWICK said, he had introduced the resolution in the form it bore, because he thought it best. He had wished the Committee would have risen. He had wished it because he did not wish gentlemen to be under any kind of trammels in the business, to be under any obligations to do what they wished not to do. He had connected the subject, because he thought it proper they should be connected. If gentlemen thought it best to separate them, he was sensible he could not prevent a separation. He should be extremely sorry if a gentleman should vote contrary to his opinion with respect to the British Treaty. He should be sorry if the gentleman from Maryland [Mr. CRABB] should be obliged to vote contrary to his opinion by such a connexion. He hoped he would not.

Mr. MADISON wished the resolution might be transposed, by putting the Treaty which was mentioned last first, and vice versa.

Mr. GALLATIN urged his motion.

Mr. WILLIAMS hoped the Committee would rise.

Mr. HARRISON said he was not in a passion,

H. OF R.]

Execution of Treaties.

[APRIL, 1796.

carried they would vote against the whole. This Spanish Treaty, would assign some more satisfacmight operate as a reason for taking up the Span-tory reason for taking up that, in preference to ish Treaty, as it was certainly the best. But it was from much better ground. The PRESIDENT had required an early attention to the Spanish Treaty, which was not the case with any of the rest. Another reason was, because he believed there would be no difference of opinion on that Treaty, except they were like children, and refused to have one good thing because they could not have all they wanted.

others, than had yet been offered. He called the attention of members to the British Treaty, and the state of things with respect to it. An assertion had been made yesterday, that nothing was necessary to be done on the part of this Government before the first of June-the day appointed for the surrender of the Western posts. He referred to the article itself, where it was expressly stipulated, that previously to that day, all the proper measures should be taken, by consent, between the Government of the United States and the Governor-Gen

Mr. GILBERT seconded the motion to strike out the words "Spanish Treaty." The Committee now rose, and the House ad-eral of Canada, for settling the previous arrangejourned.

ments which may be necessary respecting the delivery of the said posts. There were now only six weeks in which to settle the whole business. In a former debate, it was said that a latitude of six months after the first of June was given in the Treaty for the surrender to be made, in pursuance of the second article. This he flatly denied, and challenged gentlemen to support such an assertion by the instrument.

In addition to the arrangements contemplated

They were added accordingly. The House agreed to the resolution, and it was referred to a commit-in the Treaty, there were, he said, certain preparatee of three members.

DEBT DUE BANK UNITED STATES.

Mr. GALLATIN said he wished to lay a resolution and two petitions on the table. The resolution related to the Debt due to the Bank of the United States. There was one point which he wished to be clearly understood upon the subject: He wished to know whether the Bank had demanded the money for which the Government stood indebted to them. If they had, he would agree they must be paid. But, as he had seen nothing officially on the subject, he wished the matter to be inquired into. For that purpose, he proposed a resolution to the following effect:

"Resolved, That a committee he appointed to inquire whether the Bank of the United States are willing to continue the Loans heretofore made by them to Government, in anticipation of the public revenue, and amounting to 3,800,000 dollars, by new Loans, similar to those which they were used to obtain."

Mr. SWANWICK wished an amendment, 66 or any part thereof," to be added; which was agreed to, and laid upon the table.

EXECUTION OF TREATIES.

The House then formed itself into a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union, when the resolution as proposed by Mr. SEDGWICK, and as proposed to be amended by Mr. BLOUNT, by striking out the words "Dey and Regency of Algiers and King of Great Britain," being under consideration

Mr. DAYTON (the Speaker) acquiesced in the reasons which had been given in favor of taking up and deciding upon the different Treaties separately, although there might be no impropriety in blending hereafter, in one bill, the appropriations for them all. He hoped, nevertheless, that those gentlemen who were for passing over those which were first in order in the resolution, to get at the

tions which our particular situation rendered necessary. The troops requisite to take immediate transported thither, as it were, by a magical charm. possession of our posts could not be instantaneously Contracts must be advertised for, and made, for supplying provisions at the different new stations. The transportation of heavy cannon and military stores must also be provided for, and that too from a very great distance; for it was well known that the light artillery which is attached to such an army as ours was altogether unfit for garrisons. If it should be determined by a majority of the House of Representatives to withhold the appropriations that were necessary, in order to carry the Treaty into effect, the sooner that determination was known the better. The Message of the PRESIDENT which accompanied the Spanish Treaty was yesterday adverted to, Mr. D. said, to prove that it wanted an earlier attention than the other three. Upon a recurrence to those papers it would, he said, be found that the last week of the session would be as seasonable to act upon it as that day. It was not known that it was ratified in Spain and, although he owned that it was not a sufficient reason for neglecting altogether to make provision, long at least as it might be exercised without posyet it might afford au argument for a delay, as sible injury. As to the English and Indian Treaties, there was a necessity for an early attention to them, whether they were to be rejected or not; and especially if they were to be carried into effect. He hoped some better reasons for taking up the he had yet heard; for the motives of the gentleSpanish Treaty first might be given, than those man from Pennsylvania, urging that it was for the interest of his immediate constituents, could not actuate the members of that House generally, who must consult, if they do their duty, not the interests of a part only, but of the whole.

from Pennsylvania [Mr. GALLATIN] assigned reaMr. W. LYMAN said, that when the gentleman

H. OF R.]

Execution of Treaties.

[APRIL, 1796.

compromise between good and bad-between vice and virtue.

Mr. HILLHOUSE wished to bring forward three out of four resolutions which he had proposed some time before, but which were not then attended to. The three were-(the fourth being for carrying into effect the Spanish Treaty was already superseded)-first,

“Resolved, That it is expedient to pass the laws necessary for carrying into effect the Treaty lately concluded with certain Indians Northwest of the Ohio."

The other two were in the same words, only for carrying into effect the Treaty with the Dey and Regency of Algiers, and the King of Great Britain.

sons for wishing to take up the Spanish Treaty first, it was not because his constituents would be most benefited thereby, but because attempts had been made in that part of the United States to mislead and deceive the people into an opinion and belief. that unless the British Treaty should be carried into effect, the Spanish and other Treaties would also be negatived. If attempts of this sort had been made, Mr. L. said, in his opinion, it was a cogent reason for taking up the Spanish and other Treaties first, in order to undeceive them. This, however, was not the only reason that influenced his mind. The Spanish Treaty, he said, he considered entitled to a priority in point of merit. He should not attempt to go into the merits of it, particularly at this time; but thus much he would say, Mr. SWANWICK said, he should be pleased if the that he considered the Spanish Treaty, perhaps, gentleman from Connecticut, last up, might be as the most perfect ever entered into between any accommodated, by having the Treaties taken up two nations: it reflected the greatest lustre on in the way he had stated. As the gentleman from the two nations, and all concerned in the agency. New Jersey [the SPEAKER] had called for reasons Indeed, he had never heard even an objection why the Spanish Treaty should be taken up in against it. He therefore supposed there would be preference to the others, he would give what he a perfect unanimity in the House relative thereto. thought good reasons for it. No doubt the TreaThe Algerine and Indian Treaties, although not ties with Spain, Algiers, and the Indians, would so perfectly correspondent to our feelings and pass through the Committee with little discussion; interests, would nevertheless meet, he supposed, and the resolutions being passed, so much would with no objections; but, with regard to the British be done. With respect to the British Treaty, it Treaty, it must be obvious to every one, from a would become a subject of serious and solemn disformer lengthy debate, that it would be thoroughly cussion, in which he trusted the greatest moderadiscussed and investigated; and he believed the tion and candor would prevail, and which would subject would receive such an illustration as hi- issue in the greatest public good. It would receive therto it had not met with in the United States. that discussion which it had not had in public These considerations induced him to wish to dis-meetings which have already judged upon it: for pose of those Treaties, about which they were entirely agreed, and they would then soon come to the question which the House seemed to be so impatient for. He did not wish any delay; he should be ready to meet the question relative to the British Treaty, and should act according to the best dictates of his understanding. If that Treaty appeared to comport with the welfare and interests of the United States, taking all circumstances into consideration, he should vote for it; but, if the reverse of this appeared, he should conceive, not only that he was at liberty, but also that it was actually binding on him, to vote against carrying

it into effect.

these meetings have either been its decided enemies or friends, and therefore the arguments were all on one side. No doubt the PRESIDENT and Senate had fully and fairly discussed its merits, but that discussion was unknown to the people. He expected many ideas would be thrown out upon this subject by the collision of sentiment, when it came under consideration, which had not been thought of-which would be like so many sparks of light to illuminate its merits or demerits; and, whatever the final determination may be, it will be founded upon the most profound investigation. To go first into the British Treaty would be procrastinating instead of accelerating public busiHe hoped, therefore, that the Spanish Treaty ness. But were there no intrinsic merits in this would first be taken up and acted upon, and that Treaty with Spain, which ought to give it a prethen they should take up the others distinctly and ference of consideration? When his colleague separately. They were subjects in their nature [Mr. GALLATIN] stated as a reason for going into distinct, and could in no degree receive any light the Spanish Treaty, that it was a Treaty in which from being connected with each other; but, on the his constituents were particularly interested, it contrary, the connexion would tend to embarrass was good ground for him to found his wish upon. and perplex the question. It was introducing the He hoped whilst gentlemen were legislating for principle of tacking, to which he had ever been the public good, they would never forget to cheropposed. He thought, if a question would not ish, with an ardent affection, the immediate interstand the test by its own merits, it ought to be re-ests of their constituents. Upon the same ground, jected. A vicious principle, so far from being ameliorated by annexing it to a pure principle. served only to render the latter corrupt. He should therefore vote for the amendment, in order to bring the questions in a simplified state before the House. He should always be against confounding things with each other, which in their nature were so distinct and irrelevant. There could never be a

the gentleman from New York [Mr. WILLIAMS] was in favor of the British Treaty. This was natural, and ought not to occasion any surprise or heat in the Committee.

But, after all, the vote of that House must be founded upon the good of the whole, which will be declared by a majority; therefore, a vote of the House would take up the Spanish Treaty, if taken

APRIL, 1796.]

Execution of Treaties.

[H. of R.

amendment made yesterday, still went to connect the Treaties in one point of view. The amendment of yesterday was to strike out the words several Treaties," and insert the word "Treaty." But still this word Treaty might apply, in discussion, to all the different Treaties enumerated in the resolution. The amendment now under con

up at all. He did not at present mean to go into the merits of the Spanish Treaty: he thought it a very advantageous one to this country. In discussing the merits of the British Treaty, he trusted they should avoid all recriminations or acrimony, and that they should exhibit an enlightened Housenot guided by party spirit, but by a zeal for the public good. He hoped they should avoid think-sideration was to strike out part of those Treaties; ing unfavorably of each other, on account of a difference of opinion, since they could no more think alike than they could look alike. He trusted, therefore, whatever might be the final decision, that good temper and harmony would prevail ir their discussions.

Mr. MADISON would submit to the gentleman from Connecticut, to whose candor the Committee were indebted, whether the question was not decided against a lumping vote on all the Treaties, by the singular number, "the Treaty," being inserted instead of "the Treaties;" and, therefore, that his resolutions were unnecessary.

He did not understand the gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. GALLATIN] in the same way in which the gentleman from New Jersey [the SPEAKER] had understood him. He mentioned the interests of his own constituents as inducements with himself for proposing, and not to the House for deciding, to take up the Spanish Treaty. But he would explain to the gentleman from New Jersey, and to the Committee, why the Spanish Treaty should first be taken up, and not the British. That Treaty had excited no opposition, and would probably pass through the House without debate, and a select committee could prepare and bring in a bill for carrying it into effect, whilst the British Treaty should be under discussion; but, if they began with a Treaty which might occasion a lengthy discussion, nothing would be done with the other Treaties before that was gone through; whereas, if they took up the other Treaties before the British, little time would be spent before they came to that Treaty. If the gentleman from Connecticut concurred with this idea, he could agree to let the question before the Committee be taken, and then move his resolutions in the order he proposed.

and if that amendment should be rejected, the resolution would read perfectly well, and would include them all. This, indeed, was the precise form in which he had at first proposed this measure. Any observations which tended to show that all the Treaties ought to be considered together would be perfectly in order, to evince that this amendment ought to be refuted. [The Chairman declared that it was in order.] He should, therefore, take that point as open for discussion. It could not be supposed that he meant. by connecting the Treaties in one resolution, to compel gentlemen to pass upon them all in one vote: had this been the intention, it could not be the effect. It was well known that any member had a right to call for a division of the question when it came to be put. If a resolution should join four Treaties, and be discussed in that way, any member might call to have the question separately taken, whenever the Committee was ready to take it. No gentleman could suppose that a joint vote would be taken, but the several Treaties were placed in one resolution, not to be voted on together, but to be discussed together, because they were parts of one great system of foreign relations which have an intimate connexion with each other; and that reasons might be deduced from one to show the propriety of executing the others. The settlement of a dispute with one nation would facilitate the settlement of disputes with other nations. This was the object of the resolution, and not to oblige gentlemen to vote for all the Treaties at once, as seemed to have been supposed.

Before he went further into the consideration of this question, he would remark on the observations which had been made on a gentleman from Connecticut, on saying that there might be reasons for Mr. HARPER said, as he had originally, by a re- not executing the Spanish Treaty. He was himsolution which he had some days ago laid upon self of opinion that there might be such reasons. the table, brought forward this measure of con- He knew of no magic in the word Spain, that necting in one view the several Treaties which could render a Treaty with that Power, more than had lately been concluded with foreign countries with Great Britain or any other Power, perfectly and the Indian tribes, and as the object of the mea- agreeable to those principles which ought to dicsure had been much misunderstood, he thought it tate the execution of Treaties. On the contrary, incumbent on him to state some of the reasons he could easily conceive of a Treaty with Spain which had induced him to propose the resolution, which ought not to be executed, which would form and which still induced him to think that the whole one of those extreme cases where the aid of the subject of these Treaties ought to be considered Legislature ought to be withheld. Whether the together. [Mr. H. was reminded of the question Treaty actually concluded with Spain was of that before the Committee.] He knew very well, he description, was another question. He did not said, what was the question, and should go on to believe it was; but the gentleman from Connectitreat the subject in his own way, but, he trusted, cut might, with perfect consistency, be of a differin perfect reference to the point now under consi-ent opinion. That gentleman had been told that deration. If his reasoning did not appear conclusive, gentlemen would of course reject it; if, on the other hand, it should appear to have weight, it would no doubt have its proper effect. He believed that the resolution, notwithstanding the

he could not vote against the Spanish Treaty, according to his own principles; that he was absolutely bound by it, and had no discretion left. But the gentleman from Connecticut had asserted no such principles. He had, on the contrary, asserted