27

the discussion whom he did not differ from. I sures for Ireland; but he was of opinion

He dissented from a great part of the
observations of the hon. and learned mem-
bers for Tipperary and Leeds; and when
he recollected the indefatigable aud unre-
mitting exertions of the noble Chancellor
of the Exchequer, and of the right hon.
Gentleman opposite-during a season of
great trouble and difficulty-to carry a
measure which they believed to be for the
advantage of the country, more especially
for the consolidation and extension of
its liberties, he felt a desire to express
his dissent from the censure, he might
almost say the aspersions-which an hon.
and learned Member had cast upon his
Majesty's Ministers. To the hon. member
for the Tower Hamlets who addressed the
House last night, he had listened atten-
tively without being able to understand
what the hon. Member really meant
unless, indeed, with a desire to conciliate,
the hon. Member wished to throw his
speech to one side, as a compensation for
the vote which he intended to give to the
other. The hon. Member declared, that
the present measure was either wrong in
principle, and therefore ought not to be
agreed to at all, or right in principle, and
therefore ought to be carried immediately.
Did the hon. Member mean, that the House
should be called upon to express an opinion
as to whether the measure was founded
upon a principle in accordance with the
spirit of the Constitution?-whether or
not it was a constitutional proceeding to
suspend the Trial by Jury, and to abrogate
the right of petitioning Parliament? If
the hon. Member meant to put that ques-
tion of abstract principle to the House,
there would be little difficulty in coming
to a decision upon it. Surely, however,
the hon. Member could not mean to con-
tend that extraordinary cases would not
sanction extraordinary measures. He
could not mean, that the Legislature was
to be gagged and bound by the letter
of the Constitution, so as never to attend
to its end and spirit; or that life, property
and liberty were to be sacrificed, in order
to preserve the law. It was indispensable
on some occasions, that the conduct of
Government should be regulated by State
necessity; and upon that ground the pre-
sent question was to be decided. He did
not vote for the amendment which was
proposed on the Address, because he
thought it fair to give Ministers credit for
intending to bring forward beneficial mea-

that no amendment could be more reason-
able than that of his right hon. friend the
member for Lambeth. It embraced every-
thing that could be desired. If the House
had been called upon to vote, that the first
reading of the Bill should be postponed for
six months, he would not have consent-
ed; for he was not prepared to say whether
the disturbances of which they had heard
so much, were of such a nature as to render
the application of the present Bill indis-
pensable for the protection of life and pro-
perty. Such being the case he would not
wish the House to come to a vote which
would make the existing Government, or
any other Government, feel that, if addi-
tional powers were requisite to preserve
the tranquillity of the empire, the House
of Commons would refuse to grant them.
If there were conspirators in Ireland (a
circumstance which had not been proved)
he should not wish to encourage them by
a vote of this House against intrusting the
Government with extraordinary powers.
The effect of the amendment proposed by
his right hon. friend would be this;-not
to defeat the Bill altogether, but, by post-
poning it for a short time, to afford an
opportunity of satisfying the House, by
evidence, whether the state of Ireland were
really such as to justify the application of
a measure of this description. The delay
would give time for them to become better
acquainted with the state of Ireland. In
three weeks they would know the result of
the Assizes; in the mean time they would
also see the effect of those conciliatory
measures they had all along contended
would be sufficient for the pacification of
the country. He did not mean to say they
should see this in two or three weeks, but
by suspending it from time to time, if no
further necessity occurred for its enactment
they would be able to ascertain, while, if
that further necessity did occur, they would
be then in a situation to pass the Bill.
Those who thought the postponement too
short, were by no means pledged not to
insist upon its longer postponement. Those
who would not leave the Government
unprepared for any emergency, would also
have their object secured. The agitators
would know, that the Government held a
sword over their heads; the peaceful peo-
ple would feel that their liberties were safe
in the hands of their Representatives. His
vote would not be given in any spirit of
hostility to the Government, between,

which and every other Government that the debates on Reform, declaring, that had brought forward such measures he saw if that measure were not carried, and the no difference. The right hon. Gentleman people rose up in arms to carry it, he had said, that in order to introduce any per- a sword at their service. Did any one manent tranquillity into Ireland, all abuses tremble at his hon. friend's visionary sword? must be removed. The right hon. Gentle-Was it upon vapouring of this kind that man acknowledged that all this must be men were to consent to resign all the rights done but he asked, "till it is done will and privileges of a free Constitution? you have life and property destroyed; or Then, after having stated the opinions of will you have life and property secure?" the Pacificating Agitator, the right hon. There was but one answer to be given to a Gentleman had proceeded to pull forth question thus put to us. No person could from his bundle of papers on the Table a feel more deeply than he did the grievances document which he had supposed to be of Ireland; at the same time he did acknow- the solemn opinion of the Judges of Ireledge, that neither those grievances nor any land respecting the disturbances of that grievances could justify the commission of country, and the impossibility under which crime. What grievances could justify the they found themselves to perform their crimes of robbery, arson, and assassination? duties; but which was a ballad, and which Were not those crimes grievances? And he pronounced to be very bad poetry was not Ireland to be delivered from such very wretched doggrel, indeed, and this enormities? If the powers demanded were certainly nobody could dispute. But when necessary in order to put down such atro- he finished the perusal of this poetry, and cious acts or if these acts were connected when he (Mr. B.) had seen the right hon. with any conspiracy which those powers Gentleman turn first to one side of him, were called for to put down, he would not and then to the other, he did think that hesitate in granting them. He would vote he was about to say:"Now, is it not for the present measures, if they were the the opinion of this House, that the learned only ones-but he must first know that Lord Advocate of Scotland, and the hon. they were the only ones, because it was member for Leeds, shall be sent off imnatural to sanction such measures with mediately with a bountiful provision of extreme reluctance. The three objects quires of paper and bundles of pens, and which the noble Lord and right hon. Gen- all the necessary implements which may tleman had to prove, were-1. A great be found in London and Edinburgh, for increase of crime, and a continued perpe- the purpose of teaching these doggreltration of outrage. 2. The connection of writing Irish a better style of composuch crime and outrage with a conspiracy. sition?" He did think, that the right hon. And, lastly, the most important point of Gentleman might be inclined to use the all-that the measures they called upon pop-gun of the critic-but he never for the House to sanction were necessary for one moment dreamed that he meant to the suppression of such disorders. But it break this poetical butterfly upon the did not so necessarily follow, that the means wheel of a Court-martial. But the right which they proposed were the best or the hon. Gentleman at last turned to the only ones, for effecting their object. But opinions of a Committee that sat about as to this conspiracy and design to resist six months ago, and read from the Report the authority of the Legislature by force of that Committee, and from the evidence of arms what evidence was there? A of Mr. Barrington, a statement of the friend of the member for Dublin had de-associations which existed, and of the outclared that he was willing, if the Government committed any atrocious act, to take up arms to resist such act, if desired to do so by the great Agitator and Pacificator of Ireland. He must confess, when he read this rhodomontade, that he felt great surprise that it should have occasioned alarm any where out of the hon. Gentle man's own family. If Gentlemen were alarmed at this, the ears of the House were getting very timorous indeed. He remembered an hon. friend of his, during

rages which attended upon those associa-
tions in Ireland. And he then turned
round convincingly and said:
"What
will you say to this? Here are no
anonymous letters-no testimony which
you might be inclined to doubt or
to dispute there is the testimony of
Mr. Barrington-of a gentleman whose
word no one can dispute-whose evi
dence must bring conviction to the
minds of every person here is Mr. Bar-
rington, who tells you that associations of

Was it

the most terrible nature exists." But, on the law by stripping it of all its just
the first page of Mr. Barrington's evidence, forms and solemn decencies?
it was stated, that those associations which
now exist under the name of Whiteboys,
were associations which had existed under
the name of Peep-o'-day-boys, Thrashers,
&c., for the last sixty years. So that Mr.
Barrington declared, at the same time
that he stated the existence of those
troubles, that they only existed now
as they had always existed. But then the
right hon. Gentleman stopped short, and
after stating what Mr. Barrington said
respecting these associations, he did not
say anything of the course of proceeding
which Mr. Barrington proposed for putting
them down. Was it fair not to state, that
Mr. Barrington, when expressly asked
what he would recommend for the purpose
of suppressing such associations, declared
that he could recommend only the ordinary
laws vigorously administered according to
the ordinary forms. Then the right hon.
Gentleman opened the Report of the Com-
mittee before which Mr. Barrington had
been called-he read part of the Report
from that Committee, and said, that that
Report ought to be sufficient to convince
the House of the necessity of his measures.
The Committee certainly did say, that
nocturnal meetings, against which part of
the present law was levelled, ought to be
provided against-but in what words did
they express this desire?" That they
wish that whatever authority shall be given
to prevent these meetings should be placed
under such regulations as shall effectually
prevent the abuse of it, and shall carry it
as little as possible beyond the strict prin-
ciples of the Constitution." But, Sir, did
Mr. Barrington, so important an evidence,
to whom the right hon. Gentleman had
done right to call the attention of the
House did he bear out the right hon.
Gentleman's assertions, that there was a
conspiracy against the Government of
the country?-No. Mr. Barrington stated
"that he has never known a single in-
stance of hostility or combination against
the Government for the last seventeen
years." But Mr. Barrington's evidence
went even deeper than that he was asked
to what causes he attributed the outrages
he had been describing; and he said
"the cause was, that the people of Ireland
were not attached to the law, and that the
great object was, to make Irishmen at-
tached to the law." Was it then likely
to make the people more attached to

likely that the people of Ireland would
believe justice more fairly administered
when those who sat in judgment upon
them wore swords. Mr. Barrington said,
moreover, that those persons who act as
Jurors under the Insurrection Act are
frequently maltreated, but that he never
knew the slightest act of hostility against
ordinary Jurors. While the Irish people,
then, were not attached to the law, it was
evident that it would be the more odious
to them the more violent and harsh it was
made. They would only be rendered still
more furious, and still more ungovernable
by these new and more severe measures.
And then, said the witness, after stating
that the unhappy miscreants were goaded
to madness by measures of severity-then,
said he-and the words seem to drop un-
consciously from his lips-"The Irish
peasant is very much attached to any one
who treats him kindly." Was not this
picture an affecting one? There was ex-
asperation following upon violence, and
docility attending upon conciliation. Was
not the whole code of policy, past and
future, contained in this sentence? And
observe! The Ministers brought in these
laws to prevent intimidation to Jurors;
and it appeared that it was only when
such laws existed that intimidation was
to be dreaded. Here then was evidence as
to the outrages which exist as to the con-
spiracy supposed to exist-as to the causes
of violence-as to the intimidation of
Jurors, and as to the necessity for extra-
ordinary measures-all in direct opposition
to the Bill before the House. There was
all this evidence against the present mea-
sure; he must repeat, against-not the
unconstitutionality, but the inefficiency of
the present measure; and he would, there-
fore, re-echo one phrase of the hon. and
learned member for Leeds-namely, "that
he could imagine nothing worse than the
enactment of a measure, which, being
unconstitutional, should also be ineffec-
tual;" and now, having again had occa-
sion to take notice of that hon. and learned
Member, he would address himself to one
or two parts of his speech, and to which he
was the more disposed to reply, since the
hon. and learned Member brought against
a relative of his a charge of inconsistency,
which he did not very clearly establish,
His hon. relative voted against the Ad-
dress, on the grounds that it was impossi-

i

ble to pass a vote of approval on measue svernment, did it never occur to him, that a of coercion, without knowing what mea- Government which wanted popularity sures of conciliation were to attend upon wanted everything; and though it might it. And now, said the hon. and learned be called a Government, yet it could not Member, was it not inconsistent, that, possess power? The hon. and learned having given you measures of conciliation Gentleman referred to the Jacobin Club; as well as measures of coercion, you still did he forget the contempt with which the vote against us? His hon. relative might term once applied was formerly treated by have been anxious to know two things the noble Lord now at the head of the whether the measures of conciliation Government? He wished to say nothing would have preceded the measures of harsh of the hon. and learned Gentleman, coercion, and whether, if they did so, they whose great talents no one more admired would have been of that large and ample than himself, but he could not help--as kind, that would have rendered others of he saw the hon. Gentleman, and as certain a different description unnecessary. In recollections, in spite of himself, rose up that case there would have been no "coax- about him, he could not help thinking of ing with the hand and spurring with the some of those illustrious literary men, heel; " the coaxing might have rendered known to the times of which he spoke, who, the spurring unnecessary. But how was members of the Jacobin Club one year, it, that the hon. Gentleman was for once, were on the bench of the melancholy Adso singularly infelicitous in his allusions? ministration of the Gironde the year followWas there no inconsistency in the enemy ing. But these kind of historical allusions, to persecution supporting the suppression if they were not perfectly wrought out, of petitions, and the eulogist of Hampden were worse than useless; and when the arguing against the legality of pacific hon. Gentleman was speaking of the resistance? The misfortune of distin- Jacobin Club, and voting in favour of guished ability was, that the words it military law, he should remember, that the made use of had a weight which rendered power of the Jacobius commenced from the impression indelible; and hardly had the unfortunate charge of the dragoons of the hon. Gentleman's words of last night the Prince de Lambesc. He heard the passed his lips, when his (Mr. Bulwer's) hon. Gentleman speak; he heard the memory recurred to other words, which cheers with which he sat down; and when wore the usual characteristics of the hon. he contrasted the feeble and half-doubtful Gentleman's genius. "The dissenting cry with which he was attended then, with party increased, and became strong under those reiterated thrice-repeated plaudits every kind of discouragement and oppres- he remembered on former occasions, he sion. They were a sect. The Govern- could not help applying to him the words ment persecuted them, and they became an he had addressed to his hon. friend, the Opposition. The old Constitution of member for Tipperary-" Your eloquence England furnished to them the means of is unquestioned; we must believe that resisting the Sovereign without breaking your conviction is strong; and the natural the laws." Now, he had as much fear and inference to draw is, that your cause is horror at this quiet and legal resistance, bad." Now there were many Gentlemen where he saw it, as any man could have; in this House, who would never vote for because he looked upon it with a shudder, placing the great powers conferred by this as a possible prelude to more terrible Bill in the hands of any but the hon. Genthings. He feared it; but where it once tlemen at present in office; nor would had taken root, he feared that it could not they now consent to pass these measures of be crushed by force; since the law under coercion if they were not to be accomordinary circumstances, was so powerful a panied by measures of conciliation. law, that he knew but few instances of its would not quote what had been perbeing successfully resisted in this manner, petually repeated on this subject-namely, except where as the hon. member for that the character of individuals, however Calne once said-it had ceased to be law, exalted and excellent that character might by wanting that which was the spirit of be, ought never to be an argument for all law-the sanction of the people. Did confiding extraordinary power in their the hon. Gentleman not remember this; and hands, the propriety of granting which when he spoke of the volunteer body as must be decided by the character of men only wanting responsibility to be a Go-in general. He would not repeat this; VOL. XVI. {Third

C

He

35

Suppression of

{COMMONS} Disturbances (Ireland)- 36

measure exist in England, he should be
ready to vote for a similar measure. If he
were not ready to do so, he should deserve
the imputation which had been cast, as he
believed, most improperly, upon English
Members. When he said, that he should,
under similar circumstances of paramount
necessity, be ready to vote for a similar
measure, did he wish it to be supposed
possible that this Bill could ever be drawn
into a precedent for a bill of the same
kind with respect to England? Certainly
not. He denied the possibility of such an
event. He knew that he should never be
called on to vote for such a measure for
this country, and he could therefore easily
make such a promise without the slightest
fear of ever being called on to perform it.
He knew that there were causes which
produced these outrages in Ireland-that
that country had long suffered under
grievances of no common kind--no one was
more ready than himself to admit this.
Feeling convinced of this, and feeling con-
vinced, at the same time, that these causes
did not exist in either England of Scotland,
and that such causes never would exist,
he should say, at once, that no Minister
would ever be justified in coming down to
that House, and asking for such a measure
as this for England or Scotland. If, how-
ever, such an event were possible, he should
be guilty of gross injustice in voting for
this Bill, if he were not ready on a similar
occasion to vote for a Bill of the same kind
for England. He should support the mea-
sure, because he thought that a part of the
empire imperiously required it. So dis-
astrous had been the outrages, that he
believed them to be the result of a con-
spiracy; in the language of the preamble

for he knew that persons who had thus reasoned respecting others, might not be able to look at the case in the same light when it affected themselves. He knew how susceptible high and generous natures were of reproach or suspicion. He could perfectly understand how likely a noble person was to say: "What, can you think that I, whose hair has grown grey in defending the liberties of my country, would throw dirt into the last dregs of my life, by any attempt to destroy those liberties? What, do you choose to charge me, who am at this moment labouring to appease and conciliate, as if I never brought forward any measures but to irritate and coerce?" That noble person's character was fully before the House. They did ample justice to him and to his intentions; but they had a solemn public duty to perform to their constituents, to their country, and to posterity; and when that noble person spoke of his being in office, and of the measures he meant to carry, they were compelled to ask him: "Was he certain to remain in office? Was he certain that his conciliatory measures would be carried?" Sir George Grey said, that he trusted the House would indulge him for a few moments while he stated the reasons on which he should give his support to the present measure. It was with the greatest regret that he should give his support to this measure-a regret, not that it had been introduced, nor that it had been so introduced by the present Administration, who had justly acquired the confidence of the country by their attention to its best interests, but a regret occasioned by the paramount necessity for it which had been proved to exist. After he had heard the speech of the noble Lord who" So deeply rooted against the rights of introduced the measure, and that of the right hon. Secretary, who had so forcibly and eloquently supported it, he felt that the blood shed in Ireland would rest on their heads, if they refused to strengthen the hands of the Government, or delay, even for the fortnight that was now asked, to pass the Bill. He denied, that he should support this Bill, as it was imputed to English Members, because it was a Bill to be applied to Ireland, about which they were reckless, but that they would not venture to support such a Bill for England. He did not regard Ireland as a province, but as an integral part of the Empire, and would deal with it under that feeling; and should the same paramount necessity for such a

property and the administration of the law," a conspiracy that had made the law a by-word, rendering it a protection to the guilty instead of the innocent, which prevented the Government of the day from bringing the offenders to justice, and who made the offender himself the sole Executive and Legislature of the country, and the administrator of his own law, which he administered with a severity unparalleled in the history of past or present times. The facts which had been stated by the noble Lord, and by the right hon. Gentleman, had not been denied, [Yes they have, from Mr. O'Connell and others.] A general statement had indeed been made, that Ireland was not in such a con