any questions regarding the assay brought in from the United States assay office, and the defendants seldom attempt to contest these assays. The result of all this is that we are building up a body of public opinion in this relation, and the intricacies of these scientific and mechanical matters are coming to be better understood both by the judges and the public.

I dare say we are progressing in this connection in many ways. In the old days there is no doubt but that a man frequently dared to lie about what he was selling. What a man says to-day must be the truth, and I hope we are about to enter into the stage where, when a man says something, he must say it all. That seems to be the problem. Should we say part of the truth without saying it all? Isn't it the duty of a man who marks a candlestick "sterling" to say there are 4 ounces or 6 ounces of silver in it, as the case may be? If a man makes a cigarette case and it appears to be made of gold and silver, should he not mark it to show how much of it is gold and how much silver?

There is just one other suggestion I would like to leave with you. It seems to me that there are agencies in the States and cities that can adequately cope with these problems. Moreover, it seems to me that most of the corrective influences which have come about in connection with the marking of articles of commerce have not come by the convicting of one or two unscrupulous merchants, but by actually getting the industries themselves, through their legally constituted trade associations, to take a part in the work, to spread the gospel, to try to prove to all the merchants of the industry that if all are competing on the same basis of marks and standards no one will be hurt. In this connection I doubt if the Federal Trade Commission will ever develop very fully in connection with their function of raising the standards of the industry by proper marking and preventing unfair competition, unless it finds it out what the associations are in each industry and which associations are vitally concerned in any matter under investigation. It should have such information at its finger tips, so that it could at any time communicate with these associations and cooperate with them in developing what are the honest practices in the trade. In other words, it should develop definite operating contact with the trade associations of the country. Thank you.

DISCUSSION OF ABOVE PAPER

Mr. MARONEY. Mr. Chairman, I understand that the jewelry trade has had several different sizes of carat weights. Some eight or nine years ago, due to the difference in the size of the carat weights used throughout the world, there was adopted and there is now in use what is known as an international metric carat weighing 200 milligrams. This is a simple proposition; but if instead of giving the weight of a stone in carats and fractions of the carat they gave the actual weight in milligrams, it would simplify it still more. Why would it not be simpler to do away with the word carat" altogether?

Mr. ERNST. Mr. Chairman, I never considered it. I have heard in the trade that the name "carat" has represented different

weights, but to switch over to the term "milligram" would require a long process of education. People have used the term so long that they would be slow to change.

Mr. MARONEY. If you go to a jeweler he may show you a diamond and state, "This is a half carat and a sixty-fourth." How can the customer know what he is talking about? But if the weight were to be given as so many milligrams, the customer can figure what the actual size of the stone is.

ARRANGEMENT OF SESSIONS OF EIGHTEENTH ANNUAL CONFERENCE

Mr. HOLWELL. Mr. Chairman, the next question which we should take up is whether we are going to have afternoon sessions at coming conferences. We have had a difference of opinion in the executive committee regarding the advisability of having these afternoon sessions. Personally, I feel that if we can get the work started at 9 o'clock and work hard until 1 o'clock, there would be sufficient labor performed each day to justify our trip to Washington, but I would like to have the opinion of my associates here as to how they feel in the matter.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. We would like to hear from the delegates on this question. We put it this year on a 50-50 basis; but if it is possible to get here promptly at 9 o'clock and then work on to 1 o'clock and adjourn for the afternoon, perhaps we could accomplish just as much as if we tried to run both a morning and an afternoon session. It is agreeable to me either way.

Mr. CLUETT. I think we ought to look at this matter from the viewpoint of the delegates coming from a long distance. There are many delegates coming to these conferences whose expenses range from $150 to $500. When the bureau or the officials of this conference send out invitations to the governors or the boards of county commissioners or the mayors, as the case may be, and send along with those invitations a tentative program which only outlines a session for the morning, the "powers that be" will look at it from the viewpoint of whether it is worth while to spend the money to send a delegate for possibly a three-hour session per day. I feel that they will consider it as a junket and turn the proposition down. I know, speaking for myself, that we have had a hard time in Chicago to convince them that it is worth while to send a delegate, even when it amounts to what it does now, and there are delegates whose expenses are three times as much as ours. For that reason I am in favor of the two-session day.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. Several years ago I was an earnest advocate of the one-session day in Pennsylvania. I found it worked out fine there. On coming here to Washington and taking it up with delegates from distant points, I was of a different mind concerning this conference. State conferences can be held, and held very successfully, with one session a day, running from 9 to 1.30. Every moment should be occupied by business, and after that social features can be included. I can readily see, however, as Mr. Cluett points. out, that if one comes from the far West or from down South the powers that be" may look upon a conference consisting of one session a day as a junket trip.

Mr. MARONEY. I believe we should have sessions both in the morning and the afternoon.

Mr. EGAN. I believe we should have two sessions a day. I think that the papers read and the discussions that are held are very valuable. We can not afford to set up a program that will invite criticism to the effect that we are only in session for a couple of hours in the forenoon. If, perchance, the business on any one day is such that we can dispose of the program early and there is nothing else we can do we can take an adjournment until the next day.

Mr. HOLWELL. Mr. Chairman, I think we have the consensus of opinion. To remove from the shoulders of the executive committee the necessity of passing on this subject before the next conference, I move you, sir, that at the Eighteenth Annual Conference on Weights and Measures to be held in 1925 we hold two sessions a day. (The motion was seconded, the question was taken, and the motion was agreed to.)

MANUFACTURERS' EXHIBIT AT FUTURE CONFERENCES

Mr. MARONEY. The average man who comes here comes for education, so that he can return to his jurisdiction better fitted as a public servant. Formerly at these conferences the manufacturers had a number of exhibits, and these were educational. To my surprise and disappointment I found there was no such exhibit this year. If the manufacturers would bring their apparatus here and have a field and construction man go through it from a mechanical standpoint, I think each one of us would be better equipped when we return to serve the municipalities that we left, and, in other words, be better servants. In the future I hope the manufacturers will bring their apparatus here and let their field-service men instruct us. Mr. HOLBROOK. In regard to manufacturers' exhibits, I might say that recently there have been fewer manufacturers exhibiting at the conference each year. Last year the amount of apparatus exhibited was so small that criticism was made by some of the manufacturers exhibiting that the exhibit was not sufficiently successful to justify them in continuing to exhibit their products. Early during the present year we circularized the manufacturers to determine their attitude in the matter. Some few appeared to be anxious to exhibit; a few additional advised that they would exhibit if especially requested, but were not particularly interested; the majority did not care to exhibit their apparatus under any circumstances. As a result, it appeared to be demonstrated that a manufacturers' exhibit at this conference, if held, would be but little, if any, better than the one which was criticized last year. It was decided, therefore, to drop the exhibit from the program of this year and allow it to develop what stand should be taken in the future on that question. Some manufacturers have suggested that if the exhibit were to be dropped for a year or two it was perfectly possible that they might find it to their advantage at a later time to request that the exhibit again be held.'

The manufacturers were advised that while we had always been interested in having them exhibit, we did not consider that this feature was essential to the success of the conference, and I think

it has been demonstrated during the present session that this is the

case.

Many of the manufacturers have said that the weights and measures officials were so familiar with their ordinary and usual types of weighing and measuring apparatus that it seemed futile to have them on display down here; that the weights and measures officials were accustomed every day to seeing them in the stores which they visited. Looking into the future, it is possible that we might some time be able to hold an exhibit of this character: We might strictly limit it to include only apparatus which had been developed very recently and which was not well known to the weights and measures officials. If it were suggested that only certain apparatus would be acceptable, I think the reaction would be such that the manufacturers would be very anxious to have their apparatus accepted. Also, if only new and unusual types of apparatus were shown these would be of interest to almost everybody here, and they would be very anxious to see them. The exhibit then would not be neglected. If such an exhibit were small enough it might be arranged close at hand-for instance, in the back of the room herewhere it would be accessible to all delegates at all times. A large exhibit is necessarily placed in some other building, there not being available space in this one. That idea is something that might be developed in the future.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN. It has been stated that some manufacturers believe that the weights and measures officials are fully conversant with all their products, and it is only a waste of time to bring them here. I would differ from that view. I think the exhibit is very helpful. Do any manufacturers care to discuss this subject? If not, is there any new business to be brought before the conference? [After a pause.] Well, gentlemen, we have wound up a very successful conference and a motion to adjourn is in order.

Mr. FOSTER. I move we adjourn.

(The motion was seconded, the question was taken, and the motion was agreed to.)

(Thereupon, at 11.55 o'clock a. m., the Seventeenth Annual Conference on the Weights and Measures of the United States adjourned sine die.)