cannot be any sort of industrial government whatsoever under those conditions. Consequently I would insert:

(b) To refuse to make every reasonable effort to make and maintain agreements with representatives of a majority of his employees concerning wages, hours, and conditions of employment.

With that I would amend section 207 on pages 18 and 19, something as Mr. Beyer suggested.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you give us the language there?

Mr. WITTE. Possibly Mr. Beyer's language was preferable to mine, but I would insert in lines 22 and 23, I would substitute for the word "are" the words "should be recognized as" and I would insert before the word "employees" the words "a majority of the employees."

In any dispute as to who should be recognized as the representatives of the majority of the employees, the Board is to have the deciding voice.

I would leave this in the bill the way it stands, that the Board may determine whether the proper method of representation is the employer unit, the craft unit, the plant unit, the industry unit, or any other appropriate grouping. But in any event, if a bargain is made, if you have in mind making some form of industrial government you must recognize that there cannot be bargaining unless you recognize that fundamental principle of democracy, majority rule.

Because of the lateness of the hour, I won't add anything further, except I want to endorse what Dr. Leiserson said with reference to adding a section to bar the spy. I call your attention to the fact that the spy system in industry, the industrial espionage is unquestionably widely prevalent, probably not quite so prevalent as it was following the World War, but it is again being revived on a very large scale, and the industrial espionage is a practice that business frowns on in connection with business competition, and it certainly is a practice which promotes violence, it promotes unrest, which is indefensible. I have nothing further to say.

The CHAIRMAN. We thank you. Is Mr. William J. Long present? Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I understand you are here with seven others of the Weirton Steel Co. workers, that you are in the city on some other mission than attending this hearing, but that you desire to be heard by this committee. Am I correct in that statement?

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you come forward, please? Will you be satisfied, if we refrain from attendance in the Senate and give you time to be heard?

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM J. LONG, PRESIDENT WEIR COVE LODGE, NO. 30, AMALGAMATED ASSOCIATION OF IRON, STEEL, AND TIN WORKERS

The CHAIRMAN. Will you state your full name?

Mr. LONG. William J. Long.

The CHAIRMAN. Where do you reside?

Mr. LONG. Weirton, W.Va.

The CHAIRMAN. Who was your employer?

Mr. LONG. The Weirton Steel Co., a subsidiary of the National

Steel Corporation.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the particular work that you do?
Mr. LONG. I am a tin plate roller by trade.

The CHAIRMAN. You have six other representatives with you?
Mr. LONG. Yes, seven.

The CHAIRMAN. Seven altogether?

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What are you here for?

Mr. LONG. We are here, Senator, for one thing, to find out why our case, the case we had before Senator Wagner's Labor Board, the Labor Board that Senator Wagner is Chairman of, why it is being delayed.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, you had hearings because of some difficulty you had with the company, some difficulty between your employer and his employees?

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Before Senator Wagner's labor board?
Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And the decision has not yet been made?
Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

Senator WAGNER. Oh, yes; it has.

The CHAIRMAN. The decision has been made and you want to find out why the order of the board has not been enforced?

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

Senator WAGNER. The matter is now before the Attorney General. The CHAIRMAN. Have you had a strike at your plant?

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How long ago was that?

Mr. LONG. It terminated on October 16; it began on September 24. The CHAIRMAN. Are the men working at the plant now?

Mr. LONG. Yes; all but about 600 that are on the streets today, who are victimized through the company union domination.

Senator WAGNER. You went back at the request of the Labor Board when it rendered the decision?

Mr. LONG. Yes; when they signed an agreement.

Senator WAGNER. You terminated the strike?

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How many are there employed at that plant? Mr. LONG. Approximately 13,000 in the three plants, together with 5,000 in Ecorse, Mich. We have an organization there.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the nature of the organization that you belong to?

Mr. LONG. Well, Senator, the organization we belong to is an affiliate of the American Federation of Labor.

The CHAIRMAN. It is a trade union?

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How many members have you in it?
Mr. LONG. In Weirton, approximately close to 9,000.
The CHAIRMAN. Out of a total employment of how many?
Mr. LONG. Ning thousand nine hundred and fifty.

privilege, in a period of over 23 years that I have worked for the Weirton Steel Co., approximately consecutively for 23 years, that we could exercise our rights in any manner whatsoever, so as to choose representation.

In 1913 I was just a youngster in the mills, but I remember it clearly, the Weirton Steel Co. bought what is known as the Pope Tin Plate Co., in Steubenville, Ohio. The Pope Tin Plate Co. at that time signed an agreement with the Amalgamated Association of Iron, Steel, and Tin Workers. Upon taking over this plant they refused to sign a contract with the proper representatives of this organization. These men went out on a strike and tried to get Weirton to go out with them. We were clubbed by professional thugs and gunmen. The president of the Steel Co., J. C. Williams, himself rode around high, wide, and handsome in an open touring car, with a machine gun and a submachine gun, and highpowered rifles at his command, all through the town, up and down there, intimidating the men. So we could not have the preference of joining the organization. They were intimidating and coercing us in the place there. We could not have any organization representing us.

Again, in 1920, when the National Steel strike was on, they tried to organize Weirton and they met with the same results. The plant then went on a strike for a period of 3 weeks, and they met with the same results again. They were clubbed and beaten into submission. The strike, I think, lasted approximately 3 weeks.

There has never been any representation there. The men never had a voice in the only thing that they had to sell. That is, I am speaking of the practical workman. They never had a voice. The only thing they had to sell was their labor. They have never had any voice whatsoever in any manner.

Upon the employers of the Weirton Steel Co. becoming acquainted with the fact that the National Recovery Act provided in section 7 (a) that labor had the right to organize under governmental supervision and protection, the employers of the three plants, one in Weirton, W.Va., one in Steubenville, Ohio, and 1 in Clarksburg, together with the National Steel Co., which was a subsidiary, and of course the Michigan plant-we had a total membership of approximately 8,012 signed members

The CHAIRMAN. In all these plants?

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir; at that particular time. That is, I am not speaking of the Ecorse, Mich., plant, I am speaking specifically of the Weirton situation. The company insisted that we deal with a plan that they had put into effect in June 1933, known as the employees' representation plan. I believe Senator Wagner has a copy of the book. It is nothing more or nothing less than a plan that was adopted by the Whitaker-Glesner Co., known now as the Wheeling Steel Corporation. They merely took that plan and had duplicate copies made of it, and put the Weirton Steel Co.'s name in the front of the book.

The CHAIRMAN. At that time was there an existing trade union organization at your plant?

Mr. LONG. We were in the process of organizing.

The CHAIRMAN. You were not organized? You were in the process of organizing?

Mr. LONG. We were approximately organized at that time, Senator, we were 75 percent organized.

The CHAIRMAN. How long before that had you been organized? Mr. LONG. We started in April, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. You were really in the process of organization, you had not had the year before or so, or for some years back, any organization?

Mr. LONG. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. So up to this time, you were an unorganized group of workmen.

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You were in the process of organizing this trade union when this plan was suggested to you by your employers? Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.

Mr. LONG. They put the plan into effect in the early part of June. The foremen came around and instructed the rollers-I have 900 men under me, there are 26 mills there, each mill is composed of 3 crews to the number of 27 men, that is the rollers, with 3 in charge on these different shifts-instructing the rollers that they should have their men go and vote for representatives on this plan; this agreement. Senator WAGNER. Did they distribute the constitution?

Mr. LONG. Yes, they distributed the constitution. They selected the members

The CHAIRMAN. Who do you mean by "they"?

Mr. LONG. The company.

Senator WAGNER. The management.

The CHAIRMAN. The superintendents?

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir; the various foremen, together with the hot mill superintendent.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Senator WAGNER. You had no mass meeting in which you formed your own constitution?

Mr. LONG. We had nothing. They laid the plan on the table and says, "Take it. Here it is."

The CHAIRMAN. You assume they had knowledge at this time of the activities of the groups of employees forming a trade union? Mr. LONG. Yes, sir; they were thoroughly familiar with it.

The CHAIRMAN. When this plan was proposed, what did the employees do about it?

Mr. LONG. When the plan was proposed?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, I mean by the employers.

Mr. LONG. There was a small majority, Senator, that took it rather seriously, thinking that in some way it would be beneficial to them, but the majority of men who were familiar with what had taken place in the Wheeling Steel Corporation, with the plan that they had in effect there, they knew that it did not benefit them in any way whatsoever, and these men in Weirton who were familiar with that just disregarded it. Many of them were merely what you might call "wooden" men when it came to voting.

The CHAIRMAN. Was there a meeting held?

Mr. LONG. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The employees never accepted the idea?
Mr. LONG. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. They never accepted the idea of a company union? Mr. LONG. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Then how did the management of the company respond when they discovered the employees were not accepting the suggestion?

Mr. LONG. Well, they insisted on putting it through. They posted a notice. Senator Wagner, I believe, has a copy of the notice. They posted a notice to the effect that this company had this plan in effect and we must accept it and they would not bargain with any other group.

The CHAIRMAN. Had anybody started any bargaining with them up to this time?

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Your union men were starting to bargain with them?

Mr. LONG. We tried to; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. So that they knew that an effort was being made by the representatives of the trade union that had organized the plant, to deal with them for bargaining purposes, and they refused to do it?

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And they posted a notice saying the only way they would deal with the men was through this company plan? Mr. LONG. Through this plan they had in effect.

The CHAIRMAN. What happened next?

Mr. LONG. Through their insistence that we deal through this plan, knowing that we had our organization approximately 85 percent then, we rejected it.

The CHAIRMAN. Your organization rejected their suggestion?

Mr. LONG. Yes; the employees who had accepted our organization as their representation. There were efforts made to deal with them through the company representative plan, or the employees representative plan.

The CHAIRMAN. How far did you get with that attempt at representation?

Mr. LONG. We sent a man out on a small grievance that we had there, and the general manager, together with the tin plate mill manager, says, "Now, listen, you have to forget this. Remember how good we have been to you here. You will get nothing in years. The CHAIRMAN. This was the attempt of the representatives of your union?

Mr. LONG. No, sir; this was a company representative.

The CHAIRMAN. I thought you said you never had a company union meeting.

Mr. LONG. We did not, sir. This was the committee meeting, you understand, Senator, with one individual going out there on a matter of a small grievance.

Senator WAGNER. Maybe there is one thing he did not explain. After the constitution was distributed, you were told to go up and vote, were you?

Mr. LONG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you vote?

Mr. LONG. I did not; no, sir.