MR. CANNING: Mr. Bassett, I think, bears out my side of the argument beautifully, when he cited that case which happened in Detroit. They succeeded, in Detroit, in keeping those goods from the cutter by local organization. They succeeded, through the Erie County organization in keeping him from getting goods in that market, and so through the Chicago organization. They did not have a local organization in New York, and the man got the goods.

MR. BASSETT Let me answer by saying that there are wholesale firms in New York, and one in Boston, that do not care how their goods are sold; and that is the reason why these plans are not a success. If we can bring this class of people, who are not now interested in the question, to our support, something might be done.

MR. CANNING: Would you have had the same state of affairs in Detroit under similar circumstances? I think not. In New York they have no local organization, nor in Boston, but in Detroit you keep the jobbers from cutting your noses off by your local organization.

MR. FINLAY: I would like to say a word or two about my own experience. At the meeting of the wholesale druggists, manufacturers and proprietors at Louisville, I was present with one of my colleagues. While there, we saw enough to point out to us a solution of the problem before us. We had not suffered much, but previous to leaving our city we had discovered that there was danger before us; that our city was gradually falling into the hands of the cutter. When we saw the temper of the people we met at Louisville, we remembered that on the same day our Association was to hold a meeting. One of the objects of the meeting that day, on the part of some of the members, was to bring up and split, and let all of us go free-footed. We telegraphed them to hold together, and we would have a special meeting when we returned to the city. On our return, a committee was at once appointed with orders to canvass the retail trade. We went in person, first to the men we knew were all solid, and got their signatures. We knew pretty well what the temper of the trade was in our town, and by coralling the willing ones first, the other element we knew would be less unwilling. We finally got the recalcitrants to a man, with but two exceptions. Then we went to the wholesale men, and said, "Gentlemen, the only way we can bind the trade is by a compact in which you yourselves are interested. Will you sign a compact that you will not sell to any retailer in the city of New Orleans, nor fill any order you receive at less than retail price of same, if he be on the cut-off list, or if he be reported as a cutter?" They said, "Yes, we will do so." Why? Because those jobbers themselves had suffered; they were carrying men on their books month after month, owing them, who had been cutting prices. The wholesale men all signed, and at once prices were restored to full value. Just before leaving the city to join this Association, I was telephoned by a member of the trade, that a certain party was receiving goods from a wholesale drug store, and if they did not stop furnishing that man goods he would not buy from the firm any more. I called on that house in person and stated the case. They said the cutter received the goods without their knowledge, but they were serious in what they intended to do, and I am assured that the party has since been cut off. So the city of New Orleans has succeeded in getting full prices. There is no doubt the best way to succeed is for some one or two in a city to see the men themselves, get those who are most willing first, and gradually bring them all in. It seems, too, that such action as this would greatly fortify the Tripartite Committee, and I wish that every man within the sound of my voice might constitute himself a missionary to do that work. If we let others do it, it won't be done; so let us put our hands to the plow, and go through to the end.

MR. SHEPPARD: I will guarantee to Mr. Finlay his expenses and ten thousand dollars in cash, if he will put Boston in good shape.

DISCUSSION ON THE A. P. A. PLAN.

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MR. FINLAY: If Mr. Sheppard's friends will do what I proposed to do, there will be no necessity for paying the money. Let him and his friends go around among the others, and use their arguments.

MR. SHEPPARD: The men who hurt us are not our friends; they are the other ones.

MR. FENNEL: About fifteen months ago, I was a young man, full of vigor, and an enthusiast on the subject of cut rates. Since that time, I have passed through the different ages of man, and to-day you find me old and decrepid, and no longer possessed of the enthusiasm I had before. I have been accused repeatedly of attempting the feat of riding two horses in two directions, a professional and a trade one. I admit that I have been doing it, but the two horses have been running steady paced, and each has gained its goal. The American Pharmaceutical Association recognizes that about eighty per cent. of the druggists in the United States do not belong to the profession, and therefore established a commercial section to protect their interests. It doesn't concern this Association whether the plan adopted is illegal or legal; it is the duty of this Association, according to the promise made to the druggists, to offer the plan to the manufacturers who demanded it from the American Pharmaceutical Association, and say, "Here is the plan: now you enforce it." If this Association now declines to accept that plan or refuses it, then it stultifies its position towards these men, and the honor of the Association is at stake. This is the first meeting at which we have presented a complete plan, and one that is formulated not alone by members of the American Pharmaceutical Association, but by the National Wholesale Druggists' Association, and the Proprietors' Association. It is the plan, we submit, of the three associations, and we are now ready to meet the request of the manufacturers, saying, "Here is your plan: now you carry it out," and that is all that is wanted. Whether it is legal or illegal does not concern us.

MR. HECHLER: Before we vote upon this question, I believe it would be well for you gentlemen here to hear something from northern Ohio. I think Cleveland can boast of being a city where there is no cutting, and is probably the second largest city in the State, and in the Union, where such a state of affairs exists. This was accomplished only by judicious work. It was done with the co-operation of the jobbers and the manufacturers. We can assure you that our jobbers have always worked with us, hand in hand. We never started out to abuse them, we always worked with them in harmony, and they have always come to our aid whenever their help has been required. I will illustrate with two or three cases.

A dry goods concern started in our city; advertised in the papers that they were going to open a drug department, and announced their prices, at cost, in a good many articles. We held meeting after meeting, and invited our jobbers. They responded to our invitation, and we appointed a Committee which visited the house. They talked to the head of the firm, and showed him what a folly it would be to antagonize from fifty to a hundred druggists, and assuming that in the city where they were doing business that these men had friends. What was the result? We bought their goods at what they cost, removed them out of the house, and had freedom for two or three years. Another retail concern started it, and we did the same thing; we bought their goods and had freedom, until lately when we have had a small concern, cutting a little, connected with a dry goods house. They have done us no harm, however. We do not mention it to any one. They wanted a thousand dollars bonus of us to quit. As soon as they talked in that way we dropped them, and never went near them again. It doesn't hurt us a particle. But, I want to say to you gentlemen, you will never accomplish anything unless you go at it with the manufacturer and jobber in a harmonious way, organize your trade, and educate them into the belief that by selling at cut rates they cannot accomplish very much.

MR. MARTIN: I have not heard the fact mentioned that this plan is now virtually in operation in this country. It certainly is being worked in Chicago, although in another trade. Under the rules of the Plumbers' Trust there, you cannot buy anything in the plumbing line unless you happen to be a practical plumber. I had an experience of that kind. I wanted to buy some zinc, and was referred by the plumber to the manufacturer, no reason being given me for doing so. I went to a hardware store, but they said, "You must go to the manufacturer." I went to the manufacturer, and he said, "You must go back to the plumber; he is the only man that can sell it to you. We haven't any right to sell these things except to a practical plumber. The Plumbers' Association won't allow it." So I had to go back to the plumber and get the zinc from him. Now, if this tripartite plan is illegal, why isn't that illegal? No one has questioned the legality of it, and no one has contested it. I doubt whether the cutters will go to the expense of testing the case, when they consider that there are twenty thousand druggists in the country who are willing to stand by the manufacturer. Let the manufacturer show his sincerity in the matter. Let us again reaffirm this plan, and then make the manufacturer show whether he is sincere or not.

At the request of Mr. Hechler, the resolution and the amendment under consideration were read by the Secretary, as follows:

Resolved, That the plan of the A. P. A., as ratified by the Joint Committee of the National Wholesale Druggists' Association, the manufacturers of and dealers in proprietary medicines and the American Pharmaceutical Association, be reaffirmed; that this Section requests the Manufacturers of and Dealers in Proprietary Medicines Association to put this plan in operation at the earliest possible moment.-Offered by M. W. Alexander.

Resolved, It is the sense of this Association that relief from cut-rate evils can only be obtained by general request of the retail trade through local organization.-Offered by Henry Canning.

The question being taken on the amendment offered by Mr. Canning, on a rising vote it was declared lost.

The original motion offered by Mr. Alexander was then unanimously carried.

The Secretary read the resolution offered by Mr. Martin at the first session, which was seconded by Mr. Sheppard.

Resolved, That all proprietors and manufacturers of medicinal preparations be urgently requested, at the earliest practicable period, to devise such simple methods of marking all packages of their articles intended for retail use, as will facilitate identification of the source of supply of such goods.

It was explained that this resolution was not intended to alter the plan which had been just now reaffirmed, but was intended as a recommendation to the manufacturers, and that it deserved favorable consideration, more particularly in case the former plan should be declared illegal in the courts; moreover, that such a system had already been adopted by one manufacturing firm.

The resolution was unanimously adopted.

Mr. Ebert offered the following resolution :

RESOLUTION URGING LOCAL ORGANIZATION.

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Resolved, By the Commercial Section of the American Pharmaceutical Association, at its fortieth annual meeting in convention assembled: That it hereby instructs its delegates to the meeting of the National Wholesale Druggists' Association, and that of the Manufacturers and Proprietors and Dealers in Proprietary Medicines, that they respectfully request these organizations, as the plan of the American Pharmaceutical Association has been accepted for the control and regulation of the cut-rate problem, that this plan be put into practical operation at as early a date as possible."

Mr. Fennel seconded the resolution, and it was unanimously adopted. Mr. Hallberg presented the following:

Resolved, That the American Pharmaceutical Association urge thorough local organization in every centre, for the purpose of supporting the plan of the American Pharmaceutical Association.

MR. KLINE: I would like to say something in favor of that motion, because I feel, after what Mr. Bassett has said, that some remarks are necessary in regard to this feature of the question. Mr. Bassett believes that what Providence could not do, namely, to regulate the wicked jobber, a combination of retail druggists could do, and had done it, and were doing it. Mr. Finlay followed to the same effect. I submit that the remarks which Mr. Bassett did not mean in that sense-indicating that the suggestion from the Committee was of no value as long as we had jobbers-were entirely refuted by his own statements, and those of Mr. Finlay, that it is the correct course, and only through that means can anything be accomplished. I sincerely hope that the resolution now being acted upon will be taken up by the members here, and taken home, and that the organization and all this consolidation will materialize.

MR. EBERT: Will you allow me to ask Mr. Kline one or two questions regarding a matter which affects us largely in Chicago, and which I would also like to have the Association to know something about.

THE CHAIRMAN: I believe there will be no objection.

MR. EBERT: The Secretary of the Chicago Retail Druggists' Association, if I am not mistaken, addressed a letter in the name of that body to Mr. Kline, notifying him of the establishment of a cut-rate store in Chicago. They also notified Mr. Merriam, of Minneapolis, the Secretary of the National Wholesale Druggists' Association, to the same effect. We heard nothing from Mr. Kline or Mr. Merriam, though the cutter is established there and is supplied with goods from a New York house, which claimed recently that they furnished those goods because they were not aware that they were to be sold in a cut-rate store. I asked the gentlemen who represented that house whether the house was a member of the National Wholesale Druggists' Association, and they said they were, but had never received any notice. Now, at the meeting of the National Wholesale Druggists' Association in Louisville, at which I was present as a delegate from Chicago, we were told that in case of trouble we were to communicate, by letter, with Mr. Kline, or the Secretary of the National Wholesale Druggists' Association. I would, therefore, ask Mr. Kline whether he received our communication, informing him that such a store was to be opened in Chicago, and whether any steps were taken to notify the wholesale drug trade and prevent it?

MR. KLINE: I am glad the question has been asked. The communication from Chicago did reach me. The communication sent to the Secretary of the National Wholesale Druggists' Association also reached me, because to me such communication

ought to be addressed. I haven't my letter book here, but it is a very remarkable thing if my Secretary did not immediately acknowledge receipt to the proper party in Chicago. I know that the very moment it was received a memorandum was made, and the very next list which was sent out, as I could prove if I had that with me, contained the name of the drug store that you refer to.

THE CHAIRMAN: That statement of Mr. Kline's I am able to confirm. It was on the list.

MR. KLINE: I make this statement because many members misapprehend the scope of the cut-off list. It does go, so far as I can get the names, to all the proprietors who are selling goods on the rebate plan. It also goes to all the jobbers on the books as active members of the National Wholesale Druggists' Association, or who are on the books of the Ayer Company, who issue a list of their own; they were kind enough to send me their list, and I use them both. This cut-off list, at the present time, notifies the proprietors not to recognize direct orders from any such parties-and that is the one original purpose of it-to which has been attached during the present year, a proscription from ten or twelve proprietors, but in addition to that, requesting jobbers not to supply parties with proprietary medicines who are on that list. The list did not contemplate (and probably that is where Mr. Ebert gets confused) any action by the National Wholesale Druggists' Association, which would direct that no drugs shall be sold to the houses so named. That is a matter of altogether another nature and local in its character. The platform of the local organizations, as Mr. Bassett has stated, contemplates such action. I understand that occasionally the National Wholesale Druggists' Association has agreed to do it, after communications were received from these local organizations. I will only add, once more, to clinch what Mr. Bassett has assumed to think so lightly of, that these local organizations, governing themselves on that platform, and insisting on that position, can, as Mr. Ebert well testified, obtain that action, and they are obtaining it in Chicago, in the Lake Erie region and in St. Louis.

MR. BASSETT: I would ask what good does a local organization do in preventing our home trade from selling to cutting concerns, when the people in the east and west can sell them? We don't want to keep our own trade from selling to these people, and yet allow the eastern dealers to do so.

MR. KLINE: What I said this morning, and again repeat is, that if twenty thousand druggists will make it manifest to any house in New York city that that is their position, and insist upon it, I think the New York wholesalers are as wise as those in Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis, and will heed the request. This, however, has nothing to do with the cut-off list..

Mr. Hallberg named a house that for several years had been on the cut-off list.

MR. KLINE: On the list of a proprietor. All proprietors have their own lists; and, by the way, that is an important piece of information in reply to what the chairman said so eloquently a while ago in reference to the difference about legal opinions. That is precisely the gist of the legal opinion, that a proprietor, individually, has a right to do all this, and no lawyer has ever said that he had not; but they did say that no two men could combine together and agree upon it.

MR. SEABURY: Suppose twenty combined together on the same principle, who were members of an organization, but unofficially and not as an organization. Would that make it a conspiracy?