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for his acquittal; would those gen. casting on theirsoversign the obloquy tlemen allow the friends of lord M. of its rejection. Mr. Fulier conto

say, 66 What signified a convictended, that this was just a struggle tion where so many respectable for power between one set of mini. lords voted for acq .ittal ?" -The sterg and another. As to the pledge disregard manifested for that high demanded by his majesty, if any tribunal before which the noble minister had demanded the abroga. lord had been acquitted, proceeded tion of the bill of rights or Magna from the same spirit of party which Charta, would not the king hare would treat with disregard the con. been justified in demanding from science of the king.-With regard them a promise to refrain from such to the quesi on before the house, sir advice in future, and, if their word P. M. maintained, that when gen- was not to be trusted, to demand tlemen on the other side, talked of that promise in writing ? The chan. their own vindication, they meant cellor of the exchequer said, that evidently the crimination of the those who objected to a general other party, and that party was, the pledge, over-looked the violation of king : and, to sanction their views, the constitution on the part of miniwould, of course, be, to subvert sters. They had recommended the the constitutional maxim that the measure as indispensable. They king could do no wrong. This had positively said, that not an hour maxim was indeed acknowledged by was to be lost. Yet they had these gentlemen, but the tendency agreed to withdraw their indis. of their argument was this - that pensable measure, that they might he could do nothing right without not be obliged to abandon their them.- To represent their sovereign places; and this they called “ a as a man of no intellect whatever, sacrifice of private feelings to public was an exhibition to be made only duty.”-Mr. Whitbread contended, by a party, if such a party there that there was not a moment in the could be, who wished to usurp the king's life, from his accession to his power of the sovereign, and govern demise, when there was not a per. in his name.

But he believed these son constitutionally responsible for gentlemen had found, from the his actions, and that the house of judgment and firmness which his commons that should acquiesce in majesty had evinced on this, as the establishment of a contrary docwell as on many other occasions, trine, would declare itself a nontheir sovereign to be quite a entity. Mr. Bathurst had stated, different person from what they had that the king had no advice when the affected to represent him to the pledge was required.

The same as. country.--Sir Thomas Turton said, sertion was made by the present mi. that, as to ministers claiming any nisters, who, though they professed merit for having abandoned the 80 much reverence for his majesty, measure they had recommended, he disclaimed any concern or advice in thought they would have been more one act of his, to which all agreed entitled to the praise of consistency, that no minister ought to subscribe, if they had persevered in it; instead and thus left him naked and exposed of claiming for themselves all the altogether, withdrawing that supmerit of having introduced it, and port which they owed bim; that was

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toʻsay, in other terms, declining to lics might have: but the whole of become responsible for the conduct the popularity was to fall to the of their sovereign. But, thus to share of ministers. It was painful decline, and shelter themselves from to see the king brought, as it were responsibi ity, was not permitted by in person, to the bar of that house. the constitution. For, having ac. But it was some consolation to re. cepted the offices from which his flect, that from the bår of the house friends near him had retired, be of commons there still lay an appeal cause they would not subscribe the to the tribunal of the country. plede required, these gentlemen Lord Henry Petty said, a great in, urred the responsibility which constitutional wrong had been done, they manifested so much anxiety to and that the house would act con. avoid.-Lord Howick had reason sistently with what was due to to believe, that the mea-ure a luded its own character, by declaring with to had been the result of advice; firmness its sense of that wrong. It and that this advice was given by had been supposed by an honourable lord Eldon and lord Hawkesbury. gentleman (Mr. Wharton), that Mr. Canning said, that this was the another king James II. might hapfirst instance since the time of pen to ascend the throne, who might Charles, that a sovereign had been make the proposed measure in brought to the bar of parliament. favour of the catholics the means The late ministers had by their own of subverting the Protestent esta.. acts rendered their dismissal un. blishment in this country. In the avoirlatile ; and he denied that he, case supposed, lord H. P. observed, or any of his co: leagues, had given it wouid become the minister of any counser on the occasion. On such a king to give him constitutional the contrary, they had laboured to advice, however repugnant to his prevent the confusion that had en. feelings. But if it were once estan sued from the measures that had blished as a principle, that a king had been adopted. When his majesty had a right to demand of his ministers a declared that he would not go a step pledge that they would not again beyond the act of 1793, it ought to trouble him with any advice con. have excited the attention of his mini. nected with the catholic question, sters, and they should have then dis. then, truly, would the Protestant tinctly explained what was meant to religion be in danger. be conceded by the measure. Mr. C. We have been led, by the length touched on a variety of topics, but and eagerness of the debate, to give he particularly called the attention a fuller account of the arguments, of the house to the stipulations pro and con, on the question immeclaimed by the late ministers, that diately before the house, than the they should be allowed to recom- scale of our brief history admits. mend one po icy, while they pur. It was, indeed, a question of ex. sued another; which would have treme importance. And, in what. the effect to make an unfair division ever manner it should be settled, a of the popularity and the odium. mortal wound seemed to be threat. The odium would be great and all ened to the constitution of govern. fall on the crown. The benefit ment. If the conduct of the king would be small, and that the catho- were not to be answered for by his

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ministers, while the law declares that this country. Mr. Plunket admit. the king can do no wrong, then the ted, that, since the commencement monarchy would be changed into of his present majesty's reign, the despotism. If, again, the king were catholics had received a succession not allowed to act, to originate any of benefits: they had gained wealth, measure from his own spontaneous rank, and consideration in the comwill and judgment, nay, and not munity. It might be said, that even to choose his ministers without they ought now to be contented ; advice: if no one should step forth but was it not more natural for to give advice on the subject, the them, having been so kindly trea. crown would be an insignificant ted, to expect still farther bauble; the king would be a mere kindness; even admission to all cypher; and to such conclusions, the benefits and privileges of the respectively, the reasoning was constitution under which they pushed on both sides in this long lived? If the impression should go and animated debate. But it is forth among the catholics, that a hardly to be supposed, in the line of distiuction was to be suffered constitution, that ever things will to exist between the two countries,

come to such extremities. The the very existence of the nation ! balance of the constitution is only would be in the most imminent

a metaphor : were it, strictly danger. Gentlemen did not seem speaking, a balance among opposite to know that there were fiends and powers, government would be at a dæmons in Ireland, who watched dead stand when the counterpoise every opportunity of promoting should be most exact and perfect disturbance. The chancellor of the The impulsion, the soul, the spiritus exchequer stated, as he had often rector of the British government, stated before, that the measure redepends on a harmonious under. commended by the late ministry, standing, and co-operation of all would not have the effect of renderits members. On the measure to ing the catholics content with which the demand and the refu. their condition. It would lead to sal of the pledge required from mi. other objects, and not stop short nisters by his majesty referred, till it had brought Roman-catholic and which was discussed collate. bishops to the house of lords! It rally. Mr. Maurice Fitzgerald ask- was ascertained that when the first ed whether it was of any importance dispatch from the late ministry, to this country to have the support throwing open the army to the cathoof four or five millions of people to lics, was received, the catholic co-operate in the present struggle a. petition had not been abandoned on gainst the common enemy. Mr.Fuller account of that measure. Their said, that such advice as had been given demands had grown out of the reto his majesty „would, 40 years ago, laxation of the laws respecting them. have been impeachable. He remem. They wanted to be sheriffs, to be bered the time, not 30 years ago, admitted to corporations, and even to when lord North, not distrusting be king's council. In short, it was hard the catholics, had sent to Ireland to say where they would stop. The 70,000 stand of arnis, which had conduct of ministry towards the since been used in rebellion against catholics ought to be conciliatory,

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but firm, as concessions served on. ed, in the course of a very short ly to keep Ireland in an unsettled time, 5000 protestants in cold blood. state.

Mr. Grattan made an They had burned 180, in one barn ; eloquent speech in behalf of the many of them had been confined in catholic biil, which he concluded prisons, and liberated. Yet, even by deciaring, that if he were to say after this, they had been found to how Ireland ought to be treated, be the most active abettors and

he would advise that the utmost le. supporters of the very next distur. | niency should be observed. He bances that had happened. Yet,

wou'd make tolerance that rule and according to the late minister's late guide of his conduct. He would bill, these men might be comman. tell the Irish catholics, (what he ders.in-chief, and admirals of the hoped the vote of that night would fleets of this country. It was imposassure them of,) that they had not sible to admit Roman-catholics to only a root in England, but a root any portion of civil power; for also in that house. By those means they had a temporal power mixed he had not a doubt, but the two with their civil and ecclesiastical es. nations would be united as one, and tablishment, which they lodged in the integrity of the empire estab. the hands and supremacy of a folished.

reign power at that time under the Dr. Duigenan insisted, that the direction of Buonaparte, who no. greater part of the vast numbers of minated the bishop, as the bishop Irishmen in our navy and ariny,

did. There was at that time, Dr. were not catholics, but protestants. D. said, au army in Ireland, in the It had been said, there were four pay of Buonaparte. Gentlemen milions of catholics in Ireland. Dr. talked of conciliating the higher or. D affirmed, that the whole popula. ders of the Irish catholics. Who tion of that country amounted only wore the higher orders ? Dr. D. to three millions and a half. The knew not where to find them : he protestants were to the catholics as was sure there were not forty Roman. two to three in number, and in catholic gentlemen

in Ireland, point of property, as fifty to one.

thousand pounds a year The house had been told that the each. In order to make those con. Roman-catholics would be satisfied, cessions to the Roman.catholics of if it gave them, as intended by the Ireland, which were intended by late bill, all the advantages of ser- the late bill, a repeal of the test ving in the army and navy. He act would be necessary, and of all would tell the house when the Ro. other acts against the catholics. man-catholics would be satisfied. If Yet gentlemen went on to say, this Ireland were given up, and they would not endanger the established were suffered to plunder and destroy church. When the account of that all the property in it, they might bill arrived in Ireland, the Roman. then, perhaps, be content. They catholics called a meeting; when a had at all times, and on every Mr. Mackeogh laughed to scorn the occasion, evinced a marked inve. whole of the measure, as not conteracy against the Protestants. taining enough of concession, and In the rebellion of 1798, they had in menacing terms declared that they at the very outset so prepared their would either have all or none. Pro. kebemes, that they actually destroy- per powers delegated by the lords

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lieutenants to the magistrates would doctor's attack on the late minister effectualiy prevent all rebellion in was so much noticed, no reply was Ireland. There had been menaces made by Mr. Grattan, Mr. Plun. of rebellion, but there would be ket, Mr. Sheridan, or any other none. The catholics who had been speaker, to his statement of the pre. guilty of'disturbances, had neither sent state and temper of the catho. leaders, arms, nor property: he lics in Ireland. The question be. knew them well, he had been born ing loudly called for, the house in Ireland, lived all his life in Ireland, divided on Mr. Osborne's amend. and been in every part of it. If a ment to the original motion. The French army were landed in Ire. result of the division was, land, he believed they would join it, For the amendment, 258 to a man: there had now been an For the original motion 226 impudent convention-demand, nay,

Majority for ministers, 32 a direct menace, in case their petition was not complied with. This he A motion to the same effect with considered to be the consequence of Mr. Brand's, but somewhat enlarged, the concessions intended to be made

was made in the house of lords, by the to them, by a noble lord, not in marquis of Stafford, April 13. It that house, whose administration, was an excellent maxim of the conhe always thought, meant to sub- stitution, the marquis observed, vert the Protestant religion. Here which, by pronouncing that the the opposition side of the house was king could do no wrong, rescued all in a ferment;'and Dr. Duigenan. him from all responsibility for pabwas loudly called on to name the no- lic measures. On that maxim he ble lord alluded to, by lord Howiek, would rest, at least in part, the moMr. Plumer, Mr. Horner, Mr. tion he should have the honour of Sheridan, and Mr. Thomas Gren. making. With the utmost respect ville; but Mr. Canning observed, for his majesty, being anxious for that whatever imprudence there the safety of the country, he was might be in the learned doctor's ex. solicitous to see a more able and com. pression, it was not so disorderly as prehensive administration. Vari. to authorize the call which had been

ous causes had been assigned for the made for the name of the noble lord sudden change that had happened alluded to *. The speaker too said, in the ministry; but not one of them that according to the order of the in his mind, sufficient to justify house, the doctor was not bound to those who had advised the removal name the person alluded to, nor of so much integrity and such great even to make any other excuse that talents, from their offices. He there. he might think proper.

Dr. D.

fore submitted to their lordships admitted that he had spoken with the following motion : " That that too much warmth ; but though the house, feeling the necessity of a firm

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* The taste of the noble and affluent family of the Grenvilles, for offices and the emoluments of office, exposed them, pretty frequently to sarcasms in the house of cummons, and sometimes in that of the lords. Mr. Fuller, in the course of the present debate, said, that the family of the Grenvilles had been always fuli of theories and that none had been better paid for their theories, though always mischievous. By one of their theories we had lost America.

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