was

Mr. Windham said, that the differ. the apprehensions of invasion, that ence between these and the esti. had called forth and stimulated the vo. mates of last year, was on the whole lunteers, had subsided; and some rebut small ; being in number of men, laxation of activity might have been only 5284, and in point of charge, the consequence. But there was £9,176.---On the whole view of the not a doubt, that this highly estima. estimate, after an examination of it ble class of the public force would in detail, Mr. Windham congratu. again display their characteristic spirit lated the country, on an augmenta. and zeal, if a renewal of the ene

enemy's tion of the number of forces, and a menaces should call for a similar decrease of the expence of the esta. energy and ardour...On this tes. blishment, of £150,000. In 1806, timony to the merit of the volun. when the present ministers had first teers from Mr. Windham, there come into office, if they had pro- a great cry from the opposition side

, ceeded on the system before acted of the house, of hear! hear! which was upon, without any reformation, the as much as to say, that this testimony total charge of the number of forces was not to have been expected from thus augmented, would have amount. him. Mr. Windham therefore, in ed to no less than 14,800,000l.-.-On reply to this insinuation, said, that the subject of the general training of the present ministers had never found. the population of the country, Mr. fault with the volunteers themselves, Wirdham stated, that the returns had but only with the manner in which been made, and that every thing was the honourable gentlemen opposite, ready for carrying it into execution had organized them. Never had the whenever his majesty's ministers present ministers been guilty of should think fit,

uttering any charge against the voAs to the volunteers, the gloomy lunteers so disrespectful as apprehensions that had been formed which had been brought, and most of the entire dissolution of that re- pertinaciously maintained, by the spectable body, in consequence of honourable gentleman opposite; that the reductions made, in the last the volunteers would disband them. session, in its expenditure, had been selves, if any reduction should be completely falsified in the event. made of their pay or allowances. During the agitations of the public The whole number that had retired mind, and of the volunteers, which from this cause, was only 11,486. had been produced by misrepre. The number that still remained on sentation and studious irritation, service, was 363,400. while the subject was under discus- Another point on which Mr. W. sion, some symptoms of disinclina. thought it necessary on the present tion to farther service might have occasion, to make a few observa. appeared. But on better informa. tions, a point which had uudergone tion, and better consideration, those more discussion than any other, was ill-advised and inconsiderate discon. the alteration in the system of retents had subsided; and the same cruiting.- It would be remembered order of men, formed for the defence by many gentlemen, that so long as of the country, remained, in point of twelve years ago, he had urged the numbers, without any material de propriety of adopting a measure of falcation. At the present moinent, this kind for the amelioration of the

1

army ; but that he never expected whether ministers had an army ade, from its adoption, however, any sud. quate to the expence to which they den effect, but rather a gradual ameli- put the country. The boasted na. oration in the recruiting of the army, tional saving, always excepting the leading finally to the most beneficial new expenditure, was an economy effects. The measure, as far as it had upon establishment alone, and not now been tried, abundantly pro- on the effective force serving against mised all the benefits he had antici. the enemy. Upon a reference to pated, and he was satisfied that, the estimates, it would be found that while it continued to be tried, it thegross number of men was 331,180. would be found more and more From this was to be deducted the num. beneficial every year.---It was not ber of commissioned and non-com. till last October, that the measure missioned officers, which left only had been carried regularly into 293,400. This was the estimate of effect. Consequently there had not the establishment: but, from the been a fair trial in the last year. effective force there was a farther deBut it was certain, that it had been duction to be made of 37,000, which eminently successful in the two great would reduce the actual force to objects of obtaining a greater number 260,555. He was always desirous of men at a lower bounty, and in to vote supplies to the full extent in the diminution of desertion. If it which they could be made use of had been tried in the other eight or for the benefit of the country; but nine months of the year, he was cer. he thought it too much to ask funds tain that the beneficial effects of it for 37,000, who were not in existwould have been more conspicuous. ence, nor likely to be so.--.Nothing These were the only points that he had occurred since the agitation of considered it his duty to notice. If military subjects in that house in any gentleman required fartherexpla. March last, to occasion any wish to nations, he would most readily give diminish the force of the country. them. He then moved the first re- If our operations could not be di solution, which has been already rected towards the continent, our stated.

troops might be employed in maLord Castlereagh admitted that ritime attacks. The interests of the the secretary at

war had made nation imperatively required a great his statement with great candour, augmentation of the army. Tlne but he was sorry to see the house country had a right to expect the called upon to state an opinion, ge- accomplishment of this object from nerally, on a large branch of the bis majesty's present ministers, and public expenditure, when a great above all from the right honourable part of the branch of that expendi- the secretary at war, who, both in ture remained unexplained, and to the late administration and that of sanction by implication the new lord Sidmouth, had said, that those military measures, the charges for administrations should be disgraced which were included in the vote, and degraded for the inefficiency of without any explanation as to their their military measures. Lord Cas. effect, or their distinct expence. tlereagh proceeded to compare the The effective force on foot should be increase of our military strength on booked to, and then it would be for Mr. Windham's plan, both with that the consideration of the house, bonourable gentleman's own idea of . what was necessary, and with that begun by reckoning the life of a which had taken place under admini- soldier discharged from service, and strations that had incurred his pointed who had encountered hardships and a censures; and contended from a variety of climates, to be worth 21 variety of statements and calcula. years, according to the calculation tions, that, it had fallen greatly short of the insurance-offices for the lives of of both.---After he had shewn, he those who had lived at home, and in a said, that Mr, Windham's experi. different manner. If the house would ment, in respect to the increase of but grant the noble lord' his basis, numbers, had fundamentally failed, his calculations and his arguments he wished that the comparison of might he very well : but when the expence between the right honour- basis was removed as fallacious, these able gentleman's system, and those must fall with it. which preceded it, could afford.con. In arguing about the expences of solation : but the reverse was the case. the new system, the gentlemen on the He considered Mr. W.'s system, as a other side always appeared to con. system not only of fundamental sider, that this increase of expence military ruin, but of enormous had been adopted for the mere pur. and ruinous expence. It also tended pose of obtaining recruits : whereas to the complete subversion of the he had always stated that it was a situation of a soldier, as it had bare act of justice, due to the brave hitherto existed in the British army, men who had spent their lives in the and to the total destruction of all service of the country. Expence, order and subordination. He had after all, was a relative term, and placed the claim of a soldier to a ought to be considered in relation to pension on the foundation of a legal its object. A hundred pounds might right, and not on the recommenda. be a at deal for one object, and a tion of the general officer, on which hundred thousand nothing for ano. alone it could with safety rest.

ther. The argument of expence, Mr. Windham, among many other however, did not appear to have so observations in reply to lord Castle. much weight with those gentlemen Teagh, who had spoken for not less when it was connected with the than three hours, said that the noble volunteer establishment, which was lord had dwelt at very great a great favourite with them, as they length on the details of the ex. supposed it to be one of their own pence of the new system, and upon measures.---No reduction has been this expence he had founded his prin. proposed in the number of volun. cipal objections to it. But he had teers, but merely in certain expences certainly forgot that most of the gen. which were exorbitantly extravagant. tlemen in that bouse had heard him The great body of the volunteers speak at great length on that subject, must themselves have perceived the but with very little success. For, extravagance of the former expences, after arguing for more than hour, as a number of favourite corps had that the expence of raising so many been given large extra allowances men by such means would be ruinous, above what were given to volunteers he had contended in the very same in general. The striking off those breath, that no men would by that extra allowances to fayourite corpe means be raised at all! He had of volunteers, had been a saving ta

the

measure.

the public of between 3 and 400,0001. Windham considered that nothing But, the same gentleman that so could be more desirable, than to violently opposed this diminution of get into the army that thoughtful, expence, now, when there came to considerate, and undebauched class be a question about granting some of men on wheh the noble lord apincrease of allowance to men who peared to get so little value: men who had devoted their lives, and impaired could be relied on, on all emergencies their constitutions in the service of that required steadiness, or intellitheir country, wished to dole out gence. The object of the new system that pittance with a niggardly hand; was not merely a tempory addition to and made it a matter of reproach to our army, or a forcing the military -him that he had brought forward the means of the country beyond their

It would, however, be natural power, but a positive in. the pride of his life, to suppose that crease of botb those means and that he had been instrumental in increas, power. He had not, when he in. ing the comforts of those to whom troduced that system, appeared so the nation was so much indebted. sanguine about its immediate opera. Nor should he envy the noble lord, tion, as many of those who supported and the gentlemen on the other it. But he would now say, that side, if they could bring forward the operation of it hitherto had been their schemes and calculations to much greater than he had stated or shew how our brave soldiers could calculated. · In speaking of the be starved at a much cheaper rate army of reserve, he had considered than they could be maintained. it ouly as a temporary measure, and *The provision given to the soldiers the event shewed that it was no more; on their discharge had not before for that measure died of-itself, though been increased since the days of not till it had produced a considera Charles II. And when it was con. able temporary supply to the army. sidered that money was so much Of all temporary measures proposed, depreciated in value since that period, it was certainly the best; as it pro. he would ask why the defenders of doced 40,000 men : but when it had the country by land or by sea, were done that, it could go no faither.... to be the only class of those who As to the Additional Force act, ano. serve her, who were to have no in- ther temporary measure, he now crease of allowance on that account, thought it failed in every object it or no share in the prosperity and proposed. For, if from the addition bounty of the nation?

which had been made to the army, The noble lord had said, that the during the late administration of two new system would operate only on years, a deduction were made of the bargaining part of the society : those men who entered from the that is, on thoughtful and considere army of reserve, and the 13,000 ate men who looked somewhat to men who entered from the militia, futurity. He appeared to think that (which was only changing the existing the most valuable class was, the force from one hand to another,) and thoughtless, the imprudent, and those the allowing officers to raise corps who were easy to be acted upon by for rank, (the very woret way of raisa the arts of crimps, or the immediate ing men), the actual increase would #emptation of high bounty. Mír, be found to be very small indesid,

into the army.

They were like a dram given to the stitutions in the service of their country which for the moment country, after a service of fourteen might increase its power, but which or twenty-one years, should not be would be followed by greater languor left to the caprice of commanding and debility. The measure which officers. The noble lord had, ob. he proposed, had for its object, not served, by way of objection to the a mere temporary increase of num. measure adopted for recruiting the bers, but a permament increase of army, that a man, if disabled, might the

power and military means of the be entitled to his pension, after a ser. country. The first of these means vice of two or three years. But, if was, to make the service as desire. disabled in the service, Mr. Windhama able as possible to those who were would ask, why he should not ? embarked in it. The second, to Mr. Perceval said, that the facts make it as generally known to the respecting the recruiting service, public as possible, what advantages stated by the right honourable thé and comforts were in future to be secretary at war, were different from given to those who should enter those that were to be collected from

But if, hereafter, the papers on the table. He might it should be judged necessary to have an accurate account in his resort to any sort of compulsory pocket, but it would have been more measures, even then the advantages respectful if he had submitted it to of the present system would be felt, the examination of the house. In as it would be much easier to pro- the two favourite months of October cure substitutes, if the service was and November last, selected by Mr. made desireable than if it was not.. W. 2,220 men were obtained. In The great benefit of the present the same two months of 1805, no system was, that it would provide fewer than 3, 103 had been acquired, for the progressive supply of the being an excess of 883 men. In

. army. This progression made him the four months of February, March, prefer it to any measure that would April, and May, 1806, more men have a sudden or violent operation, were obtained by the regular ra because the state of the army was cruiting under Mr. Pitt's bill, than such (being 12,000 stronger than in the favourite months of the new at the beginning of last year), as not mode.---Mr. P. objected to the new to make any violent measure neces. arrangement, that a man subject to sary.

epilepsy, or other distemper, ren. By a comparison of the accounts dering him unfit for duty, was to be from the office of the inspector-general allowed to retire with all the benefits of recruits, with the accounts of of long service; thus obtaining a be. correspondent periods of former nefit by fraud at the expence of the years, he found that there was a public. growing increase, small at first, but Lord Howick, taking the final at length amounting to an excess in result of the measures of last admi. the proportion of two to one. --As nistration, for increasing the army, to the circumstance of the men being shewed by a very clear and authentic entitled to the allowance of right, statement, that the whole number it had been thought proper that men raised by those measures, was 5222 ; who had spent their lives and con. of which, 3122 were procured for

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