Mr. WILLIAMS. It is made from various files.

Mr. THOMAS. Is it made from your three sources: namely, the FBI, your own files, and the files of the Committee on Un-American Activities?

Mr. WILLIAMS. And all of the Defense Establishment's files.

PERSONAL SERVICES

Mr. THOMAS. What is the type and grade of personnel in salary who engage in this particular activity?

Mr. WILLIAMS. The average grade is grade 2 and grade 3. It is a very low-grade operation. The persons who actually do the checking of the files are grade 4.

Mr. THOMAS. File clerks?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Those are the people who go out into the other agencies making the checks in other agencies.

Mr. THOMAS. Are they usually men or women?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Men.

Mr. THOMAS. How many cases can they handle a day?

Mr. WILLIAMS. I don't know.

Mr. THOMAS. How do you arrive at that figure of $4.50 per unit if you do not know?

Mr. WILLIAMS. From their workload reports. They report the number of cases they process, the amount of time they spend on processing.

Mr. THOMAS. How long does it take one investigator, we will call him, to handle one case? What is the average time?

Mr. WILLIAMS. They go by points, sir; that is, points of investigation. As I recall, they are supposed to clear about one point day. Mr. THOMAS. How many points are there in a case?

Mr. WILLIAMS. On an average of one and a half. That, of course, does not include the travel time they would take in getting from one point to another.

Mr. THOMAS. In other words, it would take an investigator 2 days. Mr. WILLIAMS. Aside from the time that it would take him to get to the different points.

Mr. THOMAS. Well, your cost here is very low. You state that a unit cost is $4.50, but it takes one investigator 2 days. You certainly pay your investigators

Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, the investigators don't fit into this work pattern.

Mr. THOMAS. Who do?

Mr. WILLIAMS. These are the lower-grade employees we are speaking, of, the grades 2 and 3 and 4 people.

Mr. THOMAS. Call them whatever you want to, they are still doing investigative work; are they not?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes. Of course, but they usually work at a large card file. It is a question of moving from one part of the alphabet to another.

SUITABILITY CONVERSIONS

Mr. THOMAS. I note that the suitability conversions from record check and inquiry cost you $50.92 a case.

REGIONAL LOYALTY BOARDS

Examining and adjudicating regional loyalty cases cost you $128.05 a case. That is in the regional loyalty boards.

Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.

Mr. THOMAS. How long does it take them to find out a case when they once take jurisdiction?

Mr. WILLIAMS. The elapsed time runs, on an average, 2 months, sir.

Mr. THOMAS. Then, if it is appealed from the regional loyalty board to the Central Review Board here in the District of Columbia, the cost is $780 a case; is that correct?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.

Mr. THOMAS. It runs into money.

How long does the average case take here on the Loyalty Review Board?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Three to four months, sir.

PROPOSED

TRANSFER OF SECURITY INVESTIGATIONS TO THE CIVIL

SERVICE COMMISSION

Mr. YATES. You stated that there is legislation pending on the Hill for the Commission to take over the investigating function of the FBI in connection with the Voice of America and the Atomic Energy Commission. In your opinion, will the Commission be able to perform the function as well as the FBI? What is entailed in that sort of investigation?

Mr. WILLIAMS. It is a personal investigation. It is a background investigation of the person's employment, associations, membership in organizations, and so on.

Mr. YATES. It involves field work of a nature; does it not?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Of a nature; yes, sir. It is more of a personal investigation that it would be an examination of a criminal record, let us say.

Mr. MOYER. I might add, Mr. Yates, that as we explained, that type of investigation is not in this picture because the legislation that has been proposed by the Department of Justice has not yet been acted upon by the Congress. Now, in that type of personnel investigation, if the Commission should be authorized by the Congress to take it over, and we should run into any loyalty information, the case would go to the FBI for investigation as to loyalty.

Mr. YATES. Well, this has been recommended by the Department of Justice, this form of legislation?

Mr. MOYER. Yes.

Mr. YATES. Why did they pick out the Voice of America and the Atomic Energy Commission?

Mr. MOYER. I just mentioned a few.

Mr. YATES. Are there a number of agencies?

Mr. MOYER. Yes.

Mr. YATES. On the basis of application for positions rather than type of agency, I mean what is the nature of the surveys you would be conducting then?

Mr. WILLIAMS. It would be this sort of situation: It involves employment. Every person employed by the Atomic Energy Com

mission, including contract employees, must be given a full field investigation. The FBI does that.

Mr. YATES. Is the FBI not presently geared to do that?

Mr. WILLIAMS. They have a backlog, I understand, of over 100,000 cases pending. They cannot gear themselves to do it, which, as I understand it, is why they wish to get rid of the activity.

Mr. YATES. Well, would this be in the nature of a preliminary investigation such as you conduct now, turning over to the FBI such cases as you find might be suspicious?

Mr. MOYER. It would be a full field personal investigation. That is, it would not only involve record checks and inquiries but a full field investigation. Then, if as a result of either the record checks or the inquiries or the full field personnel investigation we run into any loyalty information, that would be turned over to the FBI.

Mr. YATES. Do you do any such work now?

Mr. WILLIAMS. We actually make the same security investigations, by law, for Civil Defense. We are required by the Civil Defense Act to do that.

Then the suitability conversions that we do are very identical to this type of thing. There is little or no difference between them.

As I recall, the bill does provide that we make investigations and turn over the results to the agency and they make the determination. We make no determination. If they want additional information over and above what we have supplied, they may go to the FBI for their request of further information on loyalty cases.

TRANSFERS OF PERSONNEL BETWEEN AGENCIES

Mr. YATES. What percentage of the turn-over in positions is attributable to agency changes and what percentage is attributable to employees leaving the Federal service? Do you have any records on that?

Mr. WILLIAMS. No, I do not have any specific records. I think I could get them for you, though. I think they are available.

Mr. YATES. Well, in my experience I have found that many Federal employees will go from one agency to another with the openings that come along and claim the next higher grade.

Mr. WILLIAMS. By and large the agency losing the person fills the job from some source or another unless it is a forced separation due to a reduction in force. To the extent that you get transfers, by and large, the losing agency is required to fill those jobs.

Mr. YATES. I think that figure would be very interesting.

Mr. WILLIAMS. I am almost certain that in our employment statistics that we get from agencies, there is a figure relative to transfers. We can give you the information that you want.

Normally it runs-I know that during the late war that figure of transfers averaged about 4,000 a month. That was an abnormal period. In normal periods it will be considerably less than that.

Mr. YATES. Is there any way of decreasing the unit costs of these cases?

Mr. WILLIAMs. We think not, sir. As I explained a little while ago, this is from actual work reports. Every employee in the Commission makes a work report in which he reports the amount of time, the amount of work, that he processes and the amount of time he spends

on it. We do periodically survey those operations to find out whether there is some simpler and yet equally effective way of doing it.

This particular loyalty operation probably has gotten more attention from the Commission from that point of view because it is an expensive operation by and large.

AVAILABILITY OF PERSONNEL FOR EMPLOYMENT

Mr. PHILLIPS. Did you put into the record anywhere the answer to my question as to whether, no matter how much money was given you, you could secure and provide adequate employees for yourselves to carry on such an investigation?

Mr. WILLIAMS. We think we can, sir.

Mr. PHILLIPS. For the sole amount you are asking for?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir, for this reason: As I said earlier, by and large this money will go into the services of lower grade people. Most of it is out in the field in our regional offices. For the most part, our regional offices seem to have no difficulty in finding the people they need.

Mr. PHILLIPS. How many actual cases have you concluded up to the present time? Have you put that into the record?

Mr. WILLIAMS. For the fiscal year 1951?

Mr. PHILLIPS. For any period that you state, from the time you started up to the present time, or for the fiscal year 1951. What do you have there?

Mr. WILLIAMS. For what items of work?

Mr. PHILLIPS. For this loyalty check.

Mr. WILLIAMS. For the record and inquiry cases, we processed last year 479,000 cases.

NUMBER OF CASES UNSUITABLE FOR EMPLOYMENT

Mr. PHILLIPS. Have you put into the record anywhere the amount of that number that you have found unsatisfactory for unemployment? You would find the ones who were not satisfactory for employment, but not necessarily on loyalty grounds. You might find them doubtful or you might find them

Mr. YATES. Unqualified.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Yes, not qualified for some reasons stated on page 2 of your written statement.

Mr. THOMAS. Security risks or loyalty risks.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Security risks or loyalty risks are people whose background might not have anything to do with loyalty but were unsuitable for Federal employment.

Mr. WILLIAMS. We investigated about 8,000 cases of that type, and approximately one out of four were found unsuitable and separated from the service. About 1,800 people were separated for that

reason.

Mr. PHILLIPS. That would include those people whose loyalty was doubtful?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Those would not be the loyalty cases. Those people were separated for other reasons than loyalty. Mr. THOMAS. To be specific, for what causes?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Those would be for serious arrest records, sex offenses, and items of that sort.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Those items listed on the bottom of page 2 of your statement?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.

Mr. THOMAS. That is 1,800. Give Mr. Phillips the other breakdown.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Yes.

Mr. WILLIAMS. On the question of loyalty processed in the regional loyalty boards, 1,464 cases. Of those there were 1,399 eligible decisions and 65 ineligible decisions.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Wait a minute. What is that total now?

Mr. WILLIAMS. There were 1,464 cases processed; 65 were found to be ineligible for reasons of loyalty.

Mr. THOMAS. And 1,399 were found to be eligible?

Mr. WILLIAMS. In the case of the Loyalty Review Board, which is the Washington Board, there were 94 cases processed. Of those there were 61 eligible decisions and 33 ineligible decisions resulting in separations because of loyalty.

Mr. THOMAS. About one-third. I take it that is for the fiscal year

195 1.

Mr. WILLIAMS. Almost exactly half in the case of the Review Board and about 5 percent in the case of the regional boards. Mr. THOMAS. Is that for the fiscal year 1951?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes.

Mr. THOMAS. What is your total there, 1,833 and 65?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, about 1,900.

Mr. PHILLIPS. I would make that about a third and about a half, 65 and 33; 33 is one-third of 99.

Mr. WILLIAMS. That is right.

Mr. PHILLIPS. That is pretty high. Of course, they are the only cases that actually got down to you, but even that is fairly high.

Mr. MOYER. I might add, Congressman Phillips, with respect to these suitability cases that a larger number of persons resigned after the investigation was started than were actually separated as ineligible. For example, there were 3,900 people who left during the course of the investigation. Now, we cannot assume that all of them left because of it, but I think it is reasonable to assume that some percentages could have left for that reason. The same is true in the loyalty process. As a matter of fact, the number of people who leave the service before an adjudication is quite high.

Mr. THOMAS. You would not have a figure for that?

Mr. WILLIAMS. I have it for a total from the time it started back in 1947; fifteen-thousand-odd investigations were made by the FBI. Approximately 3,000 of those people left the service before their cases. were decided.

Mr. PHILLIPS. Here is a technical point that I do not understand. When you listed at the bottom of page 2, "Conversions to personnel services are based upon serious adverse information on such matters as sex offenses, alleged criminal conduct, embezzlement of property, and so forth," it isn't clear to me technically how you divide your work, so you have left out of that statement all question of loyalty. Why was that not also included in that list?

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