At super. Then you tell a man that Jogerty, and he must sell it for no more to jos net des the same thing to him that www tell him what he can do with his serv You may throw him out of the market T. Horex. Yes, as I see it, sir, you ca ming you fixed the rate at $2 an hour t am work force worth the $2 an hour. Th reason of your fixing, would be deprive yment. It seems to me that would be the GWINN. You mean to say your association has resigned to ther price-fixing arrangements, resigned to the fact that in a today you cannot sell your property for more than 60 perits value, let us say? HASLAM. I would not say that. GWINN. Let us assume rent controls which, I think, must be HASLAM. Yes; that would seem to me to be the ultimate im- GWINN. You are resigned and not fighting the thing at all? '. HASLAM. I would not say that by any means. We are merely re talking about the present Fair Labor Standards Act which has on the books since October 1938. GWINN. If these things are wrong who do you expect to do the ing against them unless you do? r. HASLAM. That is a difficult question, sir. r. GWINN. All right. r. LUCAS. Thank you, Mr. Haslam. r. FORSYTHE. I have one question concerning the position which took in regard to the rule-making power. Is it the position of your unization that the rule-making power sought by the Secretary here reater than has been given to other administrative agencies? Ir. HASLAM. Yes, it is. Ir. FORSYTHE. I just wanted to clarify that. Mr. HASLAM. Yes, it is. Mr. LUCAS. Thank you very much. You have been helpful to the nmittee, Mr. Haslam. Mr. HASLAM. Thank you. (The statement of Mr. Haslam is as follows:) ATEMENT OF REUBEN S. HASLAM FOR THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MANUFACTURERS ON AMENDMENTS TO THE FAIR LABOR STANDARDS ACT OF 1938 My name is Reuben S. Haslam. I am an associate counsel of the National ssociation of Manufacturers and appear today on behalf of that association hich is an organization of about 16,500 manufacturers, located in all parts of e United States. Of this membership, more than 70 percent employ 500 or wer employees. I want to emphasize this point in order that this committee ill understand that by far the greater number of NAM members constitute hat class of industry often characterized as "small." The predominant majority of such employers do not have and are unable to btain the benefit of continuing advice from wage-hour experts, thus it is highly important to them, as businessmen, that any wage-hour legislation be clear and understandable. The NAM is genuinely interested in proposals to amend the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 but is not suggesting that the basic safeguards of the law be weakened or destroyed. The present act, which became effective on October 24, 1938, had simple, humanitarian, objectives to affect employees engaged in interstate commerce or in the production of goods for such commerce. These objectives were (1) to establish a 40-cent floor under wages; (2) to discourage unusually long workweeks by requiring that time and one-half be paid for overtime; and (3) to eliminate oppressive child labor. This statute was designed to meet the recommendations of President Roosevelt for "only legislation to end starvation wages and intolerable hours: more desirable wages are and should continue to be the product of collective bargaining.” 85539--49 vol. 2 -8 testimony would indicate if you have to li the things you would do to make it less bad Mr. HASLAM. That is the impression I Mr. GWINN. You agree with one of th that this law ought to be repealed instead Mr. HASLAM. No, sir; I would not, beca resent has taken the position: Point No. 1, that it is not coming up h the weakening of the statute. I have no sonally as an individual about the aspect over-all implication would be. The app sir, has been that of apparently a philosop wages and a ceiling over hours, using g has become pretty generally accepted, and basis, sir. Mr. GWINN. You do not advocate it? Mr. GWINN. You are just resigned to it? Mr. HASLAM. That describes it rather w Mr. GWINN. In your experience, does fix differ in principle from fixing prices in a food, of prices of rent, or any other commod Mr. HASLAM. In my experience, sir; no. basic difference between either type of app Mr. GWINN. Have you had any experie not, in effect, bring about scarcity? Mr. HASLAM. I think the recent exper price-control law indicated a scarcity develo and inability on the part of producers or di be, to produce or handle the product in suc to do so. Mr. GWINN. If you have minimum price you have to accept or reject it on the same fix prices on rent? Mr. HASLAM. Yes, sir; as I see it. Mr. GWINN. If you said to the owners of "You cannot sell your property for more tha would you not be doing the same thing as cannot sell your services for less than so mu Mr. HASLAM. I am not sure that the a I might say that I have not thought about it principle, whether the analysis is accurate same, sir. Mr. GWINN. When you tell a man that 1 property, and he must sell it for no more th do you not do the same thing to him that y you tell him what he can do with his it? You may throw him o of with a Mr. GWINN. You mean to say your association has res ese other price-fixing arrangements, resigned to the fact httmerica today you cannot sell your property for more than witent of its value, let us say? esteel Mr. HASLAM. I would not say that. the Mr. GWINN. Let us assume rent controls which, I think, the same category, which brings down the price or value tooperty by 40 percent-that is the figure that has been use lone the same as determining what your sales price of the prope determine what the rental income is, is it not? h that Mr. HASLAM. Yes; that would seem to me to be the ultim of laret. Of course, I am not an economist, sir. Tal Mr. GWINN. You are resigned and not fighting the thing at hare Mr. HASLAM. I would not say that by any means. We are here talking about the present Fair Labor Standards Act wh n on the books since October 1938. Mr. GWINN. If these things are wrong who do you expect to hting against them unless you do? Mr. HASLAM. That is a difficult question, sir. rier. GWINN. All right. er, sur. LUCAS. Thank you, Mr. Haslam. Mr. FORSYTHE. I have one question concerning the position took in regard to the rule-making power. Is it the position of tonization that the rule-making power sought by the Secretary here greater than has been given to other administrative agencies? Mr. HASLAM. Yes, it is. under. FORSYTHE. I just wanted to clarify that. fr. HASLAM. Yes, it is. tors. LUCAS. Thank you very much. You have been helpful to rtmittee, Mr. Haslam. ty in th to a Mr. HASLAM. Thank you. The statement of Mr. Haslam is as follows:) TEMENT OF REUBEN S. HASLAM FOR THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF M FACTURERS ON AMENDMENTS TO THE FAIR LABOR STANDARDS ACT OF 1938 e is Reuben S. Haslam. I am an associate counsel of the Nar editant majority of such employers do not have and are d in proposals to amend the FDA ting that the basic safeguar effective on October 24 emp ees engaged in int These r to discourage be paid f tute was d "only lesi le wages & L testimony would indicate if you have to live with a bad law these are the things you would do to make it less bad. Mr. HASLAM. That is the impression I sought to convey, sir. Mr. GWINN. You agree with one of the witnesses this afternoon that this law ought to be repealed instead of extended, do you? Mr. HASLAM. No, sir; I would not, because the organization I represent has taken the position: Point No. 1, that it is not coming up here to urge repeal or even the weakening of the statute. I have not done any thinking personally as an individual about the aspects of repeal and what the over-all implication would be. The approach that we have taken. sir, has been that of apparently a philosophy of having a floor under wages and a ceiling over hours, using general terminology which has become pretty generally accepted, and we have operated on that basis, sir. Mr. GWINN. You do not advocate it? Mr. HASLAM. No, sir. Mr. GWINN. You are just resigned to it? Mr. HASLAM. That describes it rather well. Mr. GWINN. In your experience, does fixing prices in one category differ in principle from fixing prices in another, such as prices of food, of prices of rent, or any other commodity? Mr. HASLAM. In my experience, sir; no. I am unable to see any basic difference between either type of approach to a problem. Mr. GWINN. Have you had any experience where price fixing did not, in effect, bring about scarcity? Mr. HASLAM. I think the recent experience under the Federal price-control law indicated a scarcity developing from the price fixing and inability on the part of producers or distributors, as the case may be, to produce or handle the product in such a way that it paid them to do so. Mr. GWINN. If you have minimum prices on products or on wages you have to accept or reject it on the same principle that you would fix prices on rent? Mr. HASLAM. Yes, sir; as I see it. Mr. GWINN. If you said to the owners of property in this country, "You cannot sell your property for more than 60 percent of the value," would you not be doing the same thing as saying to a worker, "You cannot sell your services for less than so much money?" Mr. HASLAM. I am not sure that the analysis is exactly correct. I might say that I have not thought about it, but seems to nie that the principle, whether the analysis is accurate or not, the principle is the same, sir. Mr. GWINN. When you tell a man that he must take a loss in his property, and he must sell it for no more than 60 percent of its value. do you not do the same thing to him that you do to the worker when you tell him what he can do with his services, and fix the price upon it? You may throw him out of the market, may you not, so he cannot work at all? Mr. HASLAM. Yes, as I see it, sir, you can run into that situation. Assuming you fixed the rate at $2 an hour then there would be only a certain work force worth the $2 an hour. The people underneath. then. by reason of your fixing, would be deprived of opportunity for employment. It seems to me that would be the |