of the Emancipation Act, and his hon. Friend, Mr. Bernal, of whom, after twenty years' experience, he might say that he had never known a better West Indian, yielded in like manner, did Parliament tell them, "We have taken your slave property from you in order to endow others with it, that they may gain what you have lost, that they may become your competitors in the markets of the world for the supply of produce which we will no longer allow you to rear, as you heretofore have done?" Quite the contrary. It was the plain and evident intention of the Legislature to prevent British subjects all over the world from trading in slaves and investing their capital either in slaveships or slave-plantations. He was not now bringing forward any measure opposed to the interests of the planters, but those very intereste were just as much bound up in it as those of justice and humanity. The Consolidation Act of the 4th George 4th, prohibited British merchants from engaging directly or indirectly in the buying or selling of slaves all over the world. He had detailed to their Lordships on a former occasion his reasons for holding that this was the true meaning of the act, and that there was not a shadow of foundation for the opinion that it was confined to British subjects engaged in the carrying trade from Africa across the sea, but that it was intended to prohibit also any buying or selling by British subjects out of the dominions of the Crown, as well as by any person, British subject or not, within the dominions of the Crown, with this proviso however, that the penalties should not extend to persons engaged in buying, selling, or conveying slaves coastwise, or from one island to another, provided that such was done within the dominions of the Crown-a proof that the exception was not intended to extend to transactions of this kind without the dominions of the Crown. Different opinions having, however, been entertained as to the construction of this act, there appeared to be a necessity for a declaratory clause, enacting that it should be unlawful for any British subject, in any part of the world, to take part in any such transactions; the only question being whether the operation should be made prospective, so as to leave impunity to acts hitherto done in real or supposed ignorance of the law. If this course were to be adopted, it would be necessary not only 2 B Government, and Parliament, if he were asked whether he believed, from all the inquiries he had been able to make into the consequences of the measure, that the compensation was complete and perfect, he was bound to answer in the negative. He was bound to state his clear and decided opinion, that notwithstanding the great sacrifice made on our parts, the planters, as a body, had suffered very greatly in their pecuniary interests. Some estates were so circumstanced from the land being worn out, and in general from the bad condition of the property, that almost the only valuable portion of them was the slaves. To those who were receiving only a very moderate return from their property in the West Indies, their rightful share of the 20,000,000l., proportioned to the number of their slaves, came to be a most valuable accession, enabling them to pay off their incumbrances, and leaving them, in some instances, a lucrative reversion; so that their affairs were in a better condition than before. These persons had no right to complain of emancipation; but their number bore but a small proportion to that of others, who had suffered most severely. He did not wish to name names -it would be invidious to do so-but some most valued Friends of his both in that House and the other-not to go beyond the precincts of Parliament-had been losers to a great extent by the act of emancipation. He knew persons who had once counted their returns by thousands, but they had now sunk to hundreds -he knew others who had drawn hundreds, but who had now scarcely any West-India property at all. The question then at once suggested itself, and this brought him to the leading feature of the present bill, when Parliament inflicted the Emancipation Act on the West-Indian body, did they mean that the planters should suffer for the gain of foreign colonies, not for that of their own fellow-subjects? Did they mean, when they prohibited the West-Indians from trafficking in slaves, and declared the African slavetrade felony, when they abolished slavery, and awarded compensation to the owners, to transfer the slave-trade to the Spaniards or the Portuguese, or to the British subject who lent his capital, industry, and skill, to the slavers of Cuba or Brazil? When his noble Friend, Lord Seaford, at once yielded to the justice and humanity VOL. LXX. { Third Series to state that the act should not have its more open acts of the slave-trade against application before a certain time, but to which our legislation had been more imgive a distinct indemnity to persons who mediately directed. The first part of the might have acted in ignorance. No man bill to which he was now directing the doubted that if a British subject carried a attention of their Lordships, went to decargo of slaves from the coast of Brazil to clare all buying, selling, or dealing in that of Cuba, he was guilty of felony by slaves, wherever it might be committed, the Slave-trade Abolition Act, just as to be a felonious action. Another part of much as if he were engaged in carrying a the bill he admitted, went a step farther cargo from the coast of Africa to the than the law had hitherto gone. Its object West Indies; but what was doubtful was was to prevent British subjects from inthe purchasing within Brazil or Cuba the vesting their property in slaves; not slaves necessary for cultivating a given merely to prevent them from purchasing plantation. See how near this came to slaves, but from continuing to hold slaves African slave-trading. How was the line purchased in times past. No doubt this to be drawn. Was a British subject, who was the part of his bill that was most happened to have a plantation near Rio likely to lead to differences of opinion; but Janeiro, and wanted to buy five or six he could not see a reason why, after Parslaves in order to supply the deficiency of liament had put down slavery in the his number, or extend cultivation, to be British dominions, British subjects should allowed to go out and meet a slaver at nevertheless be allowed to continue to sea, in order to get the first of the market? hold slaves in foreign countries. If this Was he to go ten leagues out to sea with were allowed, there would be a competiwherries, in which he might transfer the tion of English capital against English slaves to land? It would be monstrous colonists, and this competition it was, that to say no. It would be as much an act of the Legislature was undeniably bound to slave-trading as if he had gone to the prevent if it could. This the bill procoast of Africa, and purchased slaves from posed to do, by making it penal for a the native chiefs. For this purpose the British subject to hold slaves in any foreign word transhipment had been used in his settlement. But then, it had been said, act. Was it to be allowed that an Eng- a British subject might become possessed of lish planter was to go into the harbour of slaves without any voluntary act of his Rio, and wait there till a slaver arrived, own; and against that objection he had and when the black flag was hoisted, or provided by a clause, stating that no part when whatever other signal that was of this act should extend to any property customary had been made, was the Eng- coming to a British subject by marriage, lish planter to be allowed to go and buy descent, or bequest, or by any transfer of the unhappy slaves, and bring them on mortgage, provided it took place without shore? Was not that just as much any voluntary act of his own. There was an act of felony by the Slave-trade Aboli- another exception, to this purpose: the tion Act, as if the planter had gone and act prohibited the selling of slaves under a bought his slaves on the coast of Africa? heavy penalty, and also the holding of Then how were they to draw a line be- slaves, though under a minor penalty; but tween the man who acted as he had de- persons already possessed of slaves were scribed, and one who went for the purpose to have eight or ten months given them, of trade traffic into the slave bazaar at Rio, within which period they were to be alwhere the poor creatures were cooped up lowed to part with that possession. The like cattle, with chains upon their limbs, consequence would be, that all persons and weak and emaciated after all the who, not only before the act of 1824, but horrors of the middle passage? Was the even subsequently to the passing of that Englishman to be allowed to go and take act-and here he was, bound to say that away his purchased slaves from that ba- his views had been warmly opposed by zaar? He had no means of distinguishing other abolitionists-and he had found it between such practice and common slave- very difficult to answer their objections dealing, and he should continue to be--but he was to consider that all who lieve, till the Legislature told him the had become possessed of slaves, even contrary, that it had been quite as much since the act of 1834, should all be the object of the Legislature to put down held to have acted innocently, and all such acts as he had described, as those should be enabled, till the bill now pro posed came into operation, innocently to part with those slaves. There were some minor points to which it would not now be necessary for him to call their attention, but which would probably come under their notice in the course of the progress of the measure. There were two clauses-the 9th and 10th, which had been intended to empower British consuls to watch the proceedings of British subjects and British trading companies in countries where slavery existed, but this he had since been assured, might lead to some embarrassments, and his right hon. Friend Mr. Ellis, who had lately returned from Brazil, where his mission had by no means been unattended with result, even as far as the object was concerned, had assured him (Lord Brougham) that no good was likely to be obtained from retaining this clause in the bill. Under such circumstances, he should not, of course, persist in pressing this clause on Parliament. There was another point on which it was necessary for him to say a few words. The way in which an innocent trade on the African coast was carried on, presented a subject of no little difficulty. Many persons in this country fitted out expeditions with goods for the African coast, and on their arrival there, those goods immediately found their way into the hands of persons engaged in the slave-trade, by whom they were afterwards employed in the purchase of slaves. Now, it would be a very unfortunate thing if the innocent trade to the African coast was put down; on the contrary, it was the wish of Parliament that that trade should be encouraged as much as possible, as the most effectual means of civilising that great continent. He proposed to meet the difficulty by giving to the executive government the power of issuing orders in council from time to time, for the purpose of regulating the trade, and correeting any abuses that might spring up in it. Lastly, with respect to mining companies in the hands of British speculators, he proposed to give to Government the power of requiring security that those companies would not engage in any traffic that would directly or indirectly lead to the African slave trade. The noble Lord concluded by moving the second reading of the Slave Trade Suppression Bill. Lord Ashburton did not rise to offer any opposition to the bill of his noble and learned Friend. He had no doubt the measure would be made to attain a very desirable object, and he had no doubt, at the same time that care would be taken to prevent the measure from bearing with severity on innocent persons, who happened to be engaged in commercial pursuits in those countries where slavery still continued to exist. No doubt it would be perfectly right and proper to prevent British subjects from purchasing property within countries where slavery continued to exist, and then investing capital in slaves for the purpose of working that property. But in Cuba and Brazil there were British merchants engaged in important commercial undertakings, men of extensive connections, who had invested millions of money, and gave employment to thousands of their fellow subjects. Now it would not be an easy matter for men so circumstanced to pass their lives in such a country, without being drawn into the commission of acts that might be construed into offences against the provisions of this bill. He had not read the whole of the bill, but he hoped that provisions for the protection of such persons had been already introduced in it; or, if not, that such provisions would be introduced into it when in committee. There were a thousand chances by which property connected with slaves might come into a man's hands, but he had no doubt that before the bill passed through the two Houses of Parliament, it would be carefully looked at and examined by persons whose interests were likely to be affected by it. Bill read a second time. LIMITATION OF ACTIONS (IRELAND).] The Lord Chancellor said, that the Limitation of Actions (Ireland) Bill was precisely similar to the one that had passed that House last Session, and he should therefore merely move, that the House now go into committee on the bill. The Marquess of Clanricarde must protest against so indecent a proceeding. Here was a bill that would immediately affect some twenty or thirty actions in Ireland, and would disturb a large amount of valuable property, and such a bill should be accompanied, at least, by some statement from a Minister. The bill had not passed Parliament last Session; for it had not passed the other House of Parliament, and their Lordships required to have some explanation of this. An attempt to smuggle the bill through the House was degrading to the dignity of The Lord Chancellor said, he had not had been said, indeed, that in such a case the Crown acted merely as a trustee, but the Crown never could be a trustee; and even if it were possible that the Crown could at any time assume the character of a trustee, it could not assume that character in this case, the words of the statute being, that the right of presentation should vest in the Crown. He trusted he should be able to give a satisfactory reply to any objections that might be raised in the progress of the measure through that House. The House divided on the question that the House resolve itself into committee. Contents 30; Not-Contents 4;- Majority 26. House went into committee. Bill passed through committee with amendments. House resumed-Bill reported. 12 HOUSE OF COMMONS, Friday, July 7, 1843. MINUTES.] BILLS. Public.—1°. Designs Copyright. 2o. Charitable Loan Societies (Ireland): Public Works 30. and passed:-Lord Gray's Estate; Argyllshire Roads; PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Mr. A. Chapman, from South NATIONAL REMONSTRANCE.] Mr. T. Duncombe had a document to present, to which he believed no objection, as to form, would be made, inasmuch as it concluded with a prayer, though it was headed a national remonstrance, and emanated from the London National Association, complaining of the grievances and sufferings of the working classes, praying for a better system of representation. He moved that it be brought up. The Speaker: The document, as a remonstrance, would not be received. Mr. T. Duncombe believed, that as the document concluded with a prayer, it was not out of form. He should take the sense of the House upon its reception. The Speaker said, if the document had been headed a petition, it could not be objected to, though it contained a re monstrance. After a short debate, which was adjourned to Monday, the motion and the remonstrance were withdrawn. committee on this question, he thought, at all events, the House must be agreed on one point, that no question could be brought before it of greater importance than the state of Ireland. There was another point upon which all must be agreed, and that was, that the question could not have been brought forward with better temper or more ability than it had been by the hon. Member for Limerick. Residing as he did in England, it was extremely difficult to understand the extent and nature of the movement now going on in the sister country. But, on reading the PUBLIC BUSINESS.] Sir R. Ferguson, accounts of that movement, and even referring to the late period of the Session, allowing something for exaggeration, all suggested to the right hon. Baronet (Sir must be persuaded that it was a movement R. Peel) whether it might not be advis- which could not be treated with neglectable either to refer the Irish Poor-law Bill, that the day had come for active measures, and the Irish Municipal Bill to select or at least for explicit declarations of opincommittees, or else to take them at morn-ion. It was a movement which would ing sittings, with the view of expediting their progress. Sir R. Peel: Personally, he was ready to give any portion of his time to the expediting of the public business in that House; but it was a question whether it would be of any great service in further ing the object they had in view, to devote thirteen hours each day in that House, instead of nine, which were now occupied by Parliamentary business. The delay which had occurred in the progress of the business of the Session- not merely of the Irish business-was much to be regretted, but he did not see how the Government could be held responsible for it. He was sorry when impediments in the shape of adjournments of particular debates were thrown in the way of the progress of legislation but when those impediments arose from the desire to debate the question fully, he did not see how they were to be avoided. It was greatly to be regretted that the propress of legislation should be suspended as it had been during the last three weeks, in which no progress had been made, but he saw no means of preventing it. If the hon. Gentleman would repeat the question on a future evening, he would give him a more precise answer. exercise great influence on the national |