were sound, and had proved to be correct. | And now, judging from declarations that have been most boldly made-judging from opinions and statements prominently put forward by the Roman Catholic hierarchy of Ireland-I own with sorrow and alarm, that their present demands appear to me inconsistent with the safety of that Protestant Church, which heretofore they declared it was not their purpose to overthrow. PETITIONS PRESENTED. By Earl Brownlow, from Newtonupon-Trent, and another place, against any further Grant to Maynooth College; and from Newark, against the Registration of Births, etc. Act. By the Earls of Yarborough, and Stradbroke, and Lord Camoys, from a number of places, against the Canada Corn Bill.-By the Earl of Clancarty, from several places, against the National System of Education in Ireland.-By the Duke of Richmond, from several Metropolitan Parishes, against the Charitable Loan and Pawn Bill.-From Blything, for Extension of the Time fixed for the Repayment of Loans for Emigration purposes. · From Bolsover and Scarliff, in favour of a System of National Christian Education. From Ilfracombe, against the present System of Apprenticing poor Children. Mr. Redington, being one of the Roman Catholic Members who had felt very indignant at the charges he supposed the right hon. Baronet had made against those of his religion, must say that, after the calm statement made by the right hon. Gentleman, had his former speech been delivered in the same quiet tone-ferred to a select committee. [Hear.]-yes, he did say, that had the former speech been given in the same quiet and deliberate tone, he should not have felt so indignant as he acknowledged he had felt. If the right hon. Baronet admitted that the prophecy of 1817 was likely to be realized, he was receding from the opinions of his youth. If any one had a charge of perjury to make against him or any other Roman Catholic Member, let them come boldly forward, and make it in the face of day; he and they would be glad to meet any charge that was manfully made on the floor of the CHARITABLE PAWN OFFICES.] The Earl of Devon moved that the Charitable Pawn offices bill be read a second time. The Duke of Richmond hoped that his noble Friend would not persevere in his motion, but would allow the bill to be re House. Lord Ashburton said the bill was one of greater importance than their Lordships were, perhaps, aware of, and he hoped, therefore, that they would not pass it without having first inquired into its probable effects. He did not himself mean to offer any opposition to the bill; all he wished was, that their Lordships should be aware of the great change which it would bring about in the pawnbroking business. approbation of the measure, The poor The Bishop of Norwich expressed his in England were forced to pay enormously for the little accommodation which they occasionally required. In Paris they never paid more than 93 per cent. interest on loans, whereas in England they were often obliged to pay 70 per cent. Bill read a second time, and referred to a select committee. The House adjourned till Thursday. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Monday, June 19, 1843. MINUTES.] BILL. Public. -Committed. Chelsea Hos- Reported.-Salmon Fisheries; Factories. 3. and passed :-Watson's Divorce; Drumpeller Rail- By Messrs. Hughes, Bowes, Evans, Ord, S. Wortley, Thornely, Brotherton, Divett, Stansfield, Trelawney, Ricardo, Christie, Blewitt, Plumptre, Bernal, G. Knight, Legh, Wawn, Hindley, Heathcote, Vivian, M. Gibson, Villiers, Benett, Elphinstone, Lambton, Turner, E. Buller, C. Wood, and Barneby, Lord H. Vane, Colonel G. Langton, Sir G. Smythe, Lord Henniker, Colonel Anson, Dr. Bowring, Sir B. Hall, Lord Clive, Sir G. Staunton, Lord Worsley, Lord Duncan, and Sir W. Clay, from an enormous number of places, against, and by Lord J. Manners, Sir R. H. Inglis, and Mr. McGeachy, from eleven places, in favour of the Factories Bill.-From Alveston, for further Limiting the Hours of Labour in Factories.-By Mr. Shaw, from Cork, and Callan, against the Repeal of the Union, and for gentle Measures; and by Mr. Grogan, from Dublin, to the same effect.-By Mr. S. Wortley, from Keighley, in favour of the Scientific Societies Bill. -By Mr. Collett, from Athlone, against the Irish Poorlaw. By Mr. T. Duncombe, from Liverpool, Newcastle, Northampton, and other places, for better Treatment of Cooper the Chartist; and from South Shields, and Sutton in Ashfield, for the Repeal of the Union.-By Lord Ber nard, from Cork, against the Repeal of the Union.--By Mr. B. Smith, from Edinburgh, and Norwich, for carrying out Rowland Hill's Plan of Post-Office Reform. From Dublin, against the Arms (Ireland) Bill.-From lity when it should be transferred to other hands. He repeated, that whatever events might occur in Spain, he never would shrink from bearing his testimony to the fidelity and ability of the present Regent of that country. AFFAIRS OF SERVIA.] Viscount Palmerston wished to ask the right hon. Baronet when there was any likelihood of his being able to lay upon the Table of the House those papers connected with the affairs of Servia which the right hon. Baronet had said, he would be ready Clifton, against the Turnpike Roads Bill.-From Armagh, Riding of Yorkshire, for the Total and Immediate Re Sir R. Peel said, that he had on a chester, against any further Grant to Maynooth College. former occasion stated to the noble Lord, -From a number of Dissenting Clergymen in the West and with perfect truth, that the only hesipeal of the Corn-laws. From Leicester, against the Spirit tation which he felt to produce the papers Trade.-From Bodfean, against the Union of the Sees of in question was, that the names of indiSt. Asaph and Bangor.-From Tiverton, against the Ex-viduals who had taken part in the pro emption of Mail Coaches from the Payment of Tolls. From Oxford, in favour of the Waste Land Allotment Bill.-From Wales, in favour of the Small Debts Bill. From Chichester, for Amending the Law relating to the Rating of Tithes.--From Stoke-upon-Trent, for Amend ing the Poor-laws. From Joseph Phelps Robinson, for Inquiry into the conduct of the Local Government of Sydney with respect to the Execution. of four Convicts. From certain Individuals, in favour of the Coroner's Bill. AFFAIRS OF SPAIN ESPARTERO.] Mr. Hindley begged to ask whether Spain were to be left to itself in the choice of its government, or whether that government were to be chosen for them by France? He wished also to ask whether the Queen of Spain was to be left free to choose whom she might as her husband? or whether that choice was to be made for her by a foreign state? Sir R. Peel was not called upon at that moment, nor did he desire to enter into the question of the affairs of Spain; but he had no hesitation in saying, that we had fulfilled all our engagements with the present organ of the Spanish Government, and that he had fulfilled all his engagements towards us with perfect good faith and amity. Whatever might take place in Spain, he was convinced that it had been, and was, the earnest desire of the Regent to administer the government committed to his care, on sound constitutional principles? and when the time should arrive for surrendering the high trust reposed in him, he would have the consolation of feeling that he had so strengthened the government of Spain, as to lay the foundation of its future stabi ceedings were so mixed up with almost every line of the communications, that their publication might seriously affect the interests of those persons. Servia was not now in a very settled state; but orders had, he believed, been issued, for a new election of a governor; and at the earliest moment at which he could lay those papers before the House consistently with the safety of individuals, he should be ready to produce them. Viscount Palmerston did not wish for information of the nature which the right hon. Gentleman had mentioned, and the production of which, would, he admitted, be objectionable. He would ask the right hon. Baronet whether he would permit him to look over those papers, and to strike out of them every thing that could bear upon individuals. He should be content with the rest, whatever it might be content, that was to say, as far as those papers went; but, of course, reserving to himself to ask for more if he should think it desirable. His object was to ascertain what was the right of Russia to interfere with the election; and whether any engagement given to Russia had been so violated as to require the election to be cancelled and another to take place. He would undertake to return the papers to the right hon. Gentleman on the following morning. Sir Robert Peel considered that the noble Lord was rather influenced by his former habits of Secretary of State in making his proposal. As far as the per sonal satisfaction of the noble Lord was concerned, he should have no objection to afford him a perusal of the papers, but it was rather an unusual and novel proceeding to require him to give up the papers to the noble Lord in order that he might exercise his discretion as to the parts which should be published. Without meaning the slightest disrespect to the noble Lord, he (Sir R. Peel) would rather reserve to the present Secretary of State the duty of deciding what should be produced or not. The parties engaged in these transactions on the part of this country were at present in Servia, and he did not think it was in his power to give a full account of these transactions without committing individuals, and probably endangering the election. of all blame and cognizance of the circumstances connected with the getting up of that petition. It so happened, whether from the public newspapers from or some other source, the attention of the inhabitants of Epworth was drawn to these facts, in consequence of which a public meeting was held in that town, the result of which was, that a petition was forwarded to him to this effect : "Whereas a petition for the repeal of the Corn-laws was presented to the House of Commons upon the 9th May last, which professed to come from the inhabitants of Epworth, and that such petition was a forgery, we, the owners and occupiers of property in and inhabitants of Epworth, pray your honourable House to institute a rigid inquiry into this scandalous abuse of the privilege of petitioning, which abuse was becoming every day more general." This petition was signed by every ratepayer in the parish, and by the vestryclerk of the parish, who saw the signatures of the individuals attached to it. He (Mr. Christopher) had declined, in the first instance, to present this petition, without further evidence as to the facts of which they complained. He thought it necessary to obtain from the clerk of the journal-office a copy of the first petition, with the signatures thereunto attached, and he had informed the complaining parties that, in order to justify him in bringing this question before the House as a breach of privilege, it would be necessary to investigate most minutely as to whether the signatures were authentic or not; and, further, that a declaration should be made before a magistrate of the offence complained of and that this declaration, with the copy of the forged signatures, should then be enclosed to him. After a considerable inquiry, Mr. Hudson, the vestry-clerk, a most respectable man, who had been acquainted with the parish about thirty-two years, and in whose veracity he had the most entire confidence, made the following declaration before a magistrate : FORGERY OF SIGNATURES TO PETITIONS.] Mr. Christopher rose, in pursuance of his notice, to call the attention of the House to a circumstance materially affecting the honour of a portion of his constituents, but more materially affecting the privileges of this House He should at once state the case he had to complain of, and in bringing all the circumstances of it before the House, he thought he should make out one sufficiently strong to satisfy the House that there was a gross and flagrant breach of the privileges of the House, so that the House would no doubt be induced unanimously to accede to his proposal for a select committee to inquire into the circumstances of the case. In the first place he begged leave to advert to a petition that was presented to the House on the 9th May last, which purported to come from a portion of the inhabitants of Epworth, in Lincolnshire. That petition declared that the Corn-laws were highly injurious to the interests of the country; and they, the petitioners, living as they were in an agricultural district, were involved in common ruin in consequence of them, and were then suffering through privations which the want of profitable employ entailed upon the people; they implored the House to "I, William Hudson, vestry-clerk of Epremove the cause of the present distress worth, in Lincolnshire, do declare that I have by at once repealing those unjust and op- carefully examined the copy of the petition, pressive laws which obstructed the bounty with the signatures thereunto attached, which of an all-wise Providence, and deprived was presented to the House of Commons on the 9th May last, and purported to come from of their daily bread. This peti-213 of the rate-payers and inhabitants of the tion was presented to the House by the town of Epworth, praying for a repeal of the hon. Baronet opposite, the Member for Corn-laws; and I have also personally waited Preston. He acquitted the hon. Baronet upon all the bona fide inhabitants of the town the poor said in Parliament. The writer went on to say, that he was at a loss as to the motive by which the person sent to Epworth had been actuated; he was no party man, nor was he a member of any Anti Cornlaw Society; he had moreover been cautioned on the subject of improper signa whose names appear attached to the said petition. I have ascertained that three of those signatures were never signed by those whose names they purport to be; that ten other persons stated they had never signed this petition, but had authorised a person to sign it for them, under the impression that it was for cheap tea and cheap sugar; and that there were 119 forged names to said petition. Itures, and was not paid by his success in make this declaration conscientiously believing it to be true." procuring them, but by the time it occupied. It was difficult to say how a perHe thought, without further comment, son, residing seventeen miles from Epthat he had made it sufficiently clear that worth, could go there, and in a single day, it was the duty of the House to originate forge 119 names. The writer concluded a very rigid and strict inquiry into this by stating, that the Doncaster League had gross breach of privilege. The question no wish to screen the guilty party, and they had to consider was, what course the that the members of it were not to blame House ought to adopt under the circum-in the transaction, as they always used stances of the case. He did not pretend every caution in their power. Hence, it to be deeply read in the precedents of this appeared, that if an investigation were House, but he would recommend the instituted, a different aspect might be House to follow the course they had pur-given to the business, and if the House sued in 1827, under precisely similar cir- thought the question deserved further incumstances, respecting the presentation quiry, he would willingly support the apof a petition from Athlone complaining pointment of a select committee. of the return of that borough. He beg- The question agreed to. ged leave, therefore, to move "That the petition from Epworth, for repeal of the Corn-laws (presented 9th May), and the petition from Epworth complaining that the former petition was a forgery (presented 15th June), be referred to a select committee." Mr. THE KING OF HANOVER.] Blewitt rose to submit a question to the Attorney-general upon some important constitutional points. His Majesty the King of Hanover had lately arrived in London, and had taken his seat in the Sir George Strickland had made in- House of Lords as Duke of Cumberland; quiries upon the subject, and had found his position was thus extraordinary; he that the statement made by the hon. was a British-born subject, owing thereMember was substantially correct. He fore allegiance to the Queen; he was also had this morning received a letter which a peer of Parliament, a member of the gave somewhat a different colour to the privy council, a field marshal, and an inaffair it was from the secretary to the dependent, or, as some might say, a desAnti Corn-law League at Doncaster, and potic sovereign. It seemed impossible although he did not know him, he had that any person could reconcile the conbeen informed that he was a highly re-flicting duties thus imposed upon the same spectable individual. The letter (from which the hon. Member read some pas. sages) stated that the person employed at Epworth had been recommended to the League as an intelligent and respectable man, who stoutly denied the allegations made against him, and asserted that not a few of the signatures were obtained on condition that the names were not shown to other parties. Mr. Milner had been down to Epworth last week, and found that there was not the least chance of obtaining the truth from any of the sub-in his own dominions, might declare war, scribers so absolute was the bondage in which the bold peasantry were kept: they might as well set fire to their houses as acknowledge the fact of what had been individual; the King of Hanover claimed make peace, or enter into treaties. Upon the subject of allegiance, he begged leave to read what was said by that great constitutional lawyer, Blackstone mischievous precedent, if he were to offer any reply. He apprehended that he should discharge his duty much better by remaining silent. THE FACTORIES BILL.] On the order for the committal of the Factories Bill being read, "The peers of the realm are by their birth hereditary counsellors of the crown, and may be called together by the king to impart their advice in all matters of importance to the realm, either in time of Parliament, or, which hath been their principal use, when there is no Parliament in being. Accordingly Bracton, speaking of the nobility of his time, says they might properly be called 'consules, a consulendo: reges enim tales sibi associant ad con- Lord Ashley said, although he deeply sulendum.' And in our law books it is laid regretted the loss of the educational clauses, down that peers are created for two reasons: he, for the sake of the rest of the bill, ap1. Ad consulendum. 2. Ad defendendum, regem: on which account the law gives them proved of the resolution the Government certain great and high privileges, such as free- had come to. Even had it been possible for dom from arrests, &c., even when no Parlia the Government to have carried the meament is sitting; because it intends that they sure in that House, he did not think it are always assisting the king with their coun- would have met with that cordial sympathy sels for the commonwealth, or keeping the and co-operation from the different classes realm in safety by their prowess and valour." affected by it, without which it could not In another part of his work, the same have been effectually carried out. It should be borne in mind, that the Church, with a eminent judge stated that it was a conview to conciliation, were ready to make tempt of the king's prerogative, and a high misdemeanour, for a British-born the very largest concessions, larger cersubject to prefer the interests of a foreign tainly than it had ever made before, but concessions made in the hope of conciliation potentate to those of his own sovereign. and peace. But when the Church found Looking at the duties of a peer of Par-that the terms which it proposed, so far liament, and at those of a privy councillor, what did Blackstone say upon that point : "An Englishman who removes to France, or to China, owes the same allegiance to the King of England there as at home, and twenty years hence as well as now. For it is a principle of universal law, that the natural-born subject of one prince cannot, by any act of his own, no, not by swearing allegiance to another, put off or discharge his natural alle giance to the former.” from leading to conciliation and peace, only led to greater disunion and almost to effectual war, it had no alternative but to stop, at all events, at the point to which it had already advanced. Somewhere or other, however, a very great and deep responsibility did lie; it was not for him to point out who were the parties really responsible for the position at which they had now arrived. He certainly must say that the Government had shown their readiness to act. He asked the House whether all these make concessions for the sake of conciHe saw the Church prepared to duties could be reconciled in the same in- liation and peace, and on the other hand dividual? He remembered soon after the he saw the great body of Dissenters reKing of Hanover came to his crown, read-joicing that they had been successful in ing in a newspaper that the Duke of Wellington had been offered by the King of Hanover the custody of his proxy in the House of Lords, but that the Duke, seeing the anomalous position of the King, refused to accept it. He, therefore, rose to put a question on the subject most respectfully to the highest legal authority in the House, and the constitutional prosecutor of all public delinquents. The Attorney-general was sorry that such a matter had been brought under the notice of the House. With reference to the nature of the question, and with reference to the illustrious individual to whom it related, he must say, that he thought he should be setting a bad example, which might be drawn into a very their efforts to defeat the measure. Whereever the fault lay one thing was quite clear-that the really suffering parties were the vast body of neglected children, who, as present appearances went, were now consigned to an eternity of ignorance. While he deplored the result to which the measure had come, he must be allowed to express his satisfaction at the manner in which it had been received and entertained in the first instance, and at the absence of all violence with which it had been received by the Dissenters in that House. That reception did certainly afford some ground for hoping that hereafter something might effectually be done to arrest the further progress of vice, ignorance, and immorality in the country by means of |