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were highly blameable in not asking them sessions, the inhabitants of which were
before the end of the last session of the anxious to procure their independence; and
last parliament. He did not wish, how by acceding to whose wishes, our monarch
ever, to condemn ministers without proofs, must bave alienated a great part of his
por would he attach the foul blame to own sovereignty. He doubted much if a
them until he was convinced they had king could make such an alienation of his
deserved it. With regard to Russia, he territorial dominions, without the advice
professed to know nothing. They might of his parliament. An alienation of ter-
be a barbarous, a semi-barbarous, or a ritory naturally and necessarily required
civilized people, as they had been various the advice of parliament, to give it va-
ly represented; but of this he was sure, lidity; and he did not believe that any
that they had evinced feelings of which minister would have ventured on such a
every civilized nation ought to be proud ; measure, without the advice and consent
feelings which neither philosophy nor of parliament. But he would detain the
refinement could teach, an invincible at- House no further on this subject. As to
tachment to their native country. He the other objects of the Amendment, to
could not forbear, on that head, paying his obtain information on the different topics
just tribute of applause to the Russians of in the Speech, he thought this might easily
all classes; to the government, to the be obtained in a less objectionable way,
army, and to the people; for all had and on the whole he should vote against
vied with each other in sacrificing every the Amendment. All the objects referred
thing for their country. How the contest to in the Speech, and in the proposed Ad.
might terminate he could not foresee, and, dress of the noble lord, would require, and
perbaps, he was not so sanguine as other would undoubtedly receive further dis-.
people in his bopes of a successful issue ; cussion and enquiry; and he hoped to see
but this he was ready to acknowledge, bis bon. friend employ those great abilities
that Russia had done more than was ex- he possessed, in the investigation of each
pected fiom her. She had done enough individually. The state of our relations
to disappoint sorely the invader, and to ex with America, and the causes which had
ceed all expectations which had been formed led to it, particularly; and also the Treaty
from the bravery of her hardy sons.-On with Sweden, he hoped to see discussed in
the question of peace, as proposed in the their proper place. This day, however,
Amendment, he was sorry, as he was at he saw no reason why the Answer to the
all times, to differ from his hon. friend. Speech from the throne should not be as
He was as desirous for peace as any man usual; and, in so doing, he repeated it, he
in England, could he see any way by thought we were more likely to attain
which it could be attained; but the pro- peace, than by adopting the way pointed
position of his hon. friend, if adopted, out by his hon. friend.-Adverting lastly
would go to put that desired blessing still to the Roman Catholic question, he ob-
farther from our reach; it would naturally served, that certainly the executive go-
raise the demands of the enemy, especially vernment was neither bound nor pledged
as the sufferings of the people formed the to introduce that subject in the Speech.
principal reason his hon. friend adduced Considering, however, how connected that
to support his proposition. France would question was with the vital interests of the
then say, the English government does empire, it would have been wise in minis-
not wish for peace, but the House of Com- ters to advise its being mentioned. Al-
mons forces them to it, owing to the misery though not mandatory upon them in con-
of the people-let us keep up our de- sequence of what had passed in the last
mands, and we must have them on our parliament, yet it would have been politic

He believed there was and prudent to bring the matter forward
scarcely an instance, except during the under the sanction of government. From
American war, where parliament inter- their silence, however, he concluded that
fered, and made a peremp:ory call on go- they were still hostile to it; and the omis.
vernment, or on the ministers of the crown sion of that subject in the Speech, afforded
to offer terms of peace. But these things him a proof that they did not intend to
did not stand on the same fooling then as bring the subject forward. In consequence
they did in the present instance. The of this, and as a right hon. gentleman
war was not then a war between two in. (Mr. Canning) who had last session made
dependant countries, but between this a motion in favour of the Roman Catho.
country and a distant part of ber own pos- lics, had now deposited his trust in the


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own terms,

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hands of a right hon. friend of his (Mr. (nour to hold the office of Chancellor of Gráttan) 90 properly qualified, he would that University, but that he was anxious to now in the name and at the express de- be understood as giving no opinion on one sire of that right hon. friend, give notice side or the other relative to the subject of to the House, that shortly after the Christ. the Petition. mas recess, be would submit a motion to The Earl of Hardwické observed, that the House, on the necessity of repealing due notice had not been given to the nonthe disabilities under which the Roman resident members of the University of the Catholics still laboured.

intention to set on foot such a Petition ; to Mr. Elliot followed, and took up nearly the consideration of which, he contended, the same grounds. He was happy to un- the attention of the non-resident members derstand, that it was not the intention of ought to have been fairly called, it not his hon. friend to push his Amendment to being a question of religion, but of poa division. Had he been forced, however, litical expediency. To shew that the to give a vote upon the subject, it must danger to be apprehended from the interhave been against the Amendment; be- ference of the Pope was merely ideal, cause he thought that an Address, founded the noble earl observed, with reference to on the distresses of the country, and re- some late proceedings of the Catholic commending the adoption of measures for Prelates of Ireland, that the Pope was not procuring peace, would have the effect of to be found, nor could any communication retarding, rather than of accelerating that be had with him. object—if, by a peace were meant the ad- The Petition was ordered to lie on the vantages which ought necessarily to re-table. sult from the accomplishment of such a Lord Grenoille said that he had a simimeasure.

lar Petition to present from the University Mr. Vernon also expressed his satisfac- of Oxford. The mere act of presenting a tion, that the Amendment was not to be Petition at variance with his own opinions, pressed to a division, as he must have been was a thing so common in parliamentary under the necessity of voting against it. usage, that he should not have thought it Before parliament addressed the crown on necessary to notice the circumstance, the subject of peace, he thought they But both the illustrious personage who had ought to be satisfied of two things, first, preceded him, and himself, stood in a pethat peace was attainable; and secondly, culiar situation with respect to these Petithat the mode pursued was the most likely tions. They come, my lords, from corpomode of attaining it. In the present in rate bodies at the bead of which we have stance he was convinced of the reverse of the honour to be placed; and they purboth of these being the case; and besides port to be the Petitions of the chancellors such an Address at the present moment as well as of the other members of our two would be unwise, as tending to infuse a Universities. The illustrious personage distrust of our sincerity into both the has, therefore, thought it necessary to disSpanish and Russian governments,--pecu- claim all participation in the prayer of liarly unwise at the present moment, when the Petition which his Royal Highness we had been obliged to allow the capital has presented, and to remind the House of Spain to fall again into the hands of the that he has always hitherto (and' from móinvaders, and when the emperor of Russia tives which all who know them must aphad evinced his sincerity in the contest, plaud) abstained from giving any opinion by sacrificing his own capital to his-po- on this great question. For myself, howlitical honour.

ever, I must go much further. My opiThe question being called for, the nions upon it have been long publicly Amendment was put and negatived, and avowed.' So far from concurring in this the Address carried without a division. Petition, I am convinced that no other ex.

pedient could now be devised so certain HOUSE OF LORDS.

and so effectual for bringing upon this Tuesday, December 1.

country the very evils of which the peti

tioners are apprehensive, as the adoption PETITIONS

ROMAN of that very policy which they so earnestly Catholics.] The Duke of Gloucester recommend. Thus much I stated to your presented a Petition from the University lordships on a similar occasion last year, of Cambridge, against the Catholic Claims, and my opinion remains unaliered. But and stated that he did so, having the ho- I have now a still more painful duty to dis



charge. To the declaration of my unqua. The Petition was ordered to lie on the lified dissent from the prayer of this Peti- table. tion, I must add, that of my strong disapprobation of the terms in which it is expresso BILL FOR THE APPOINTMENT OF A Viceed.' It appears to me, by obvious and ne- CHANCELLOR]. Lord Redesdale presented a cessary construction, to convey a most in. Bill for the better administration of justice, jurious, unwarranted and groundless asper which his lordship stated to be the same as sion on the motives and principles of some that which was before the House last sesof the best and wisest men both living and sion, for the appointment of a Vice-Chandead, who have ever adorned the councils cellor, and observed that it was quite imor the senate of this country. It appears possible for any person, whatever might to me to extend this reflection even to the be his talents or his industry, to execute proceedings of the legislature itself. Such the multifarious duties which now de being, as I think, the import of the words volved upon the Lord Chancellor, and according to their plain sense and meaning, that the consequence of his not having the it was matter of grave and serious delibe- requisite assistance, was a delay in the ration in my mind whether I could be jus- hearing of Appeals and Writs of Error in tified by any consideration in suffering my that House, which was most ruinous and name to be affixed, even for form's sake, oppressive to the parties concerned. to such a paper. Nor am I yet sure that The Bill was read a first time and orderI have rightly decided. But if I have ed to be printed. erred, it is on that side on which, if I err at all, I should wish my error to be found. I have erred from the desire of facilitating HOUSE OF COMMONS. the exercise of the right of petitioning from the wish to promote free discussion

Tuesday, December 1. on this momentous question, and to give ANSWER OF ADMIRAL STOPFORD TO VOTE' full scope and due weight to whatever OF TANKS.] The Speaker acquainted the either of argument or of authority can be House, that he had received from rearadduced against those opinions, the suc- admiral the hon. Robert Stopford the folcess of which has always been best proved lowing Letter, in return to the Thanks of by full and unreserved examination.—I this House, signified to him by the Speaker, was also greatly influenced by my firm in obedience to their commands of the persuasion that the words which convey 10th of January last; to my mind this highly objectionable sense were nevertheless not so intended by

Cape Town, Cape of Good Hope, the framers of this Petition. They are

28th August, 1812. men, I am confident, of juster and better “ Sir; On the 24th of August I had the regulated minds than to be capable of honour to receive your letter of last Jasuch a purpose,

They know, I'am cer- nuary, communicating the unanimous Vote tain, that nothing could be more unbe. of Thanks of the Commons of the United coming of their own peculiar stations-Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, for that nothing could less befit a grave, and my cordial co-operation with the army reverend, and religious body, than the at- acting under the command of. lieutenants tempt to judge the consciences of others, general sir Samuel Auchmuty, in the late and to fix an injurious' calumny on the operations on the Island of Java. I beg motives of those from whose' opinions they leave to express to you, Sir, the high value máy chance to differ. They are also, I I place upon this distinguished mark of must believe, men far too wise, and of judg- approbation of my conduct upon that ocments infinitely too enlightened, not to casion; and I shall take the earliest opbe sensible that if disgrace should attach portunity of communicating the unaniany where, it must fall on the authors of mous Vote of Tbanks of the Commons of the calumoy, and not on those to whom it the United Kingdom to commodore is applied. For them, therefore, as well Broughton, the captains, officers, seamen, as for myself, I publicly disavow any such and marines, employed with me upon the interpretation of their Petition; and it is reduction of Java. I have the honour to in this persuasion only that I could think be, Sir, &c. ROBERT STOPFORD, myself authorised to present it to your

Rear-admiral. lordships, and to move that it may lie

-- Charles Abbot, esq. on your table.

Speaker of the House of Commons, &c." (VOL. XXIV.)


PETITIONS RESPECTING THE ROMAN CA-, Catholics of this United Kingdom to oba, THOLICS-FROM THE UNIVERSITY OP Ox. tain the full enjoyment of political power, FORD-THE CITY OF OXFORD-AND SION and to remove all the restraints and inca. COLLEGE.] Sir William Scott presented pacities to which they are sabject by the a Petition from the chancellor, masters, laws now in force against them; and and scholars, of the University of Oxford, praying, that the statutes constituting and setting forth,

establishing those restraints and incapa« That the petitioners can never cities may still be preserved inviolate, in cease to be, in every just and proper as much as those statutes appear to have, sense of the expression, the firm ad been devised by the wisdom of our anvocates of religious toleration, but that cestors as the best and surest means of they have always contemplated, and still giving permanency and security to the continue to contemplate, with extreme Protestant government of this country in anxiety, the efforts incessantly made to Church and State, and as, in the firm belief overturn tbe defences of our civil and re- of the petitioners, the same, or equally as ligious establishments, by the admission strong reasons, now exist for the continue of persons professing the Roman Catholicance of those statutes as when they were religion, not only to offices of the highest enacted.” trust and authority, but even to the power Mr. Lockhart intimated that, when the of framing laws for the government of this Petition should come to be taken into con. Protestant Church and State; and that sideration, he would support the prayer of the Petitioners do verily believe that the the Petitioners. restrictions and disabilities to which the Roman Catholics in Ireland are subject, Sir William Curtis presented a Petition are still indispensably requisite for the main from the London clergy, incorporated by tenance and security of the Protestant go the title of “ The president and fellows vernment, and especially of the Protestant of Sion College within the city of London," Church, as it is now by law established in setting forth, that part of the United Kingdom; and that “ That the petitioners, having witnessed the petitioners see also much reason to ap- the efforts repeatedly made of late years prehend that the removal of these restric- to procure further indulgences for persons tions and disabilities would lead, and they professing the Roman Catholic Religion, fear, by direct and necessary consequence, cannot but contemplate with great soli. to a removal of all restrictions and disabi. citude the probability of those efforts being lities whatever on account of religion, and speedily renewed ; and that the petito an entire abrogation of the oaths, de- tioners, therefore, regard it as their clarations, and tests, by law required of bounden duty humbly to express their every person admitted to sit or vote in most serious apprehension of the dangers either House of Parliament, or to fill of likely to arise from the removal of those fices of trust and power, which the pe- restrictions and disabilities to which the titioners still humbly conceive to be es. Roman Catholics are now subject, and from sentially necessary to the safety both of enabling them to hold offices of the our civil and religious establishments ; highest trust and authority, and even to and praying, that the House, in its wis- sit in the imperial parliament, to legislate dom, will be pleased to maintain those for a Protestant Church and State; and laws, and preserve inviolate those securities that the petitioners, while they are the which long experience has proved to be firm advocates of religious toleration as most congenial with the character, and recognized by the laws of this country, under Divine Providence, most conducive and desirous that its blessings may conto the stability of our happy constitution inue, cannot but feel alarmed at the evils in Church and State."

to be apprehended from depriving the

established Church of that mild ascendMr. Atkins Wright presented a Petition ancy which it now enjoys, and they canfrom the mayor bailiffs and commonalty not but deprecate the adoption of measures of the city of Oxford, in common council which would, as they conceive, be a deassembled, setting forth,

parture, in a leading and important in“That the petitioners are filled with stance, from the acknowledged principles the most serious apprehensions of danger of our constitution; and that the petifrom a renewal of the attempts which bave tioners are humbly of opinion, that the already been so often made by the Roman restrictions and disabilities now subsisting

with respect to the Roman Catholics, are has been made of a member or members not in themselves either oppressive or un- to serve in parliament, in the first class. just; and that they continue to be no less Such as complain of double returns, in the indispensably requisite than heretofore, second. Such as complain of the election for the maintenance and security of the or return of members returned to serve for Church establishment, against those whose two or more places, in the third. Such as principles, when carried into effect, have complain of returns only, in the fourth; ever been found incompatible with true and the residue of the said Petitions, in the Christian toleration, and subversive of fifth class. And the names of the places civil and religious liberty; and that, in to which such Petitions (contained in the stating this their humble opinion, the pe- first class, if more than one) shall relate, titioners cannot but recollect, that the shall, in the first place, be written on sesafeguards of wbich they deprecate the veral pieces of paper of an equal size; removal have been proved by long expe- and the same pieces of paper shall be then rience to be necessary, that they were rolled up, and put by the clerk into a box established by our ancestors at a period or glass, and then publicly drawn by the when our laws and liberties were fixed on clerk; and the said Petitions shall be read a solid basis, and the crown of these domi- in the order in which the said names shall nions was limited, by the Act of Settle. be drawn, and then the like method shall ment, to the Protestant succession; and be observed with respect to the several praying, tbat the House will, in its wis. Petitions contained in the second, third, dom, continue to preserve those safeguards fourth, and fifth classes, respectively." which, under Divine Providence, have And it appearing, by the return book, been the firm support of our national con- that there were no cases falling within the stitution in Church and State, and of the first and second classes; Resolved, “ That tille of our revered monarch, and his this House will not, before the adjournavgust family, to the throne of this United ment of the House for the recess at Kingdom.”

Christmas, take into consideration any of And the said Petitions were ordered to the Petitions presented, complaining of lie upon the table.

undue elections or returns of members to

serve in parliament." RESOLUTIONS RELATINO

TO PRIVATE Bills.] Lord Castlereagh moved, That SHAPTESBURY ELECTION-PetitioN OF the Standing Order of this House, of the MR. WETHERELL, &c.] A Petition of 18th day of June 1811, “ That all Pe Charles Wetherell, of Lincoln's Inn, esq. titions for Private Bills be presented within and Edward Kerrison, esq. and also of fourteen days after the first Friday in the John Cooper, of the borough of Shaftesnext and every future session of parlia- bury, ironmonger, and William Swyer, of ment," might be read; and the same the same place, banker, was delivered in, being read; Resolved-1. That this House and read; setting forth, will not receive any Petition for Private “ That, at the last election of burgesses Bills after the 19th instant. 2. That no to serve for the said borough in parliaPrivate Bill be read the first time after the ment, held on the 7th of October last, the Sth of March. 3. That this House will petitioners Charles Wetherell and Edward not receive any Report of such Private Kerrison, together with Richard Bateman Bill after the 10th of May.

Robson, esq. and Hudson: Gurney, esq.

were candidates to be elected; and the RESOLUTION RESPECTING CLASSING AND petitioners John Cooper and William READING ELECTION PETITIONS.) A Pe- Swyer had a right to vote at such electition, complaining of an undue election tion; and that the petitioners Charles and return, being offered to be presented; Wetherell and Edward Kerrison had the

Resolved, “That whenever several Pe- majority of legal votes at such election, titions, complaining of undue elections or and ought to have been returned duly returns of members to serve in parlia- elected to serve in parliament for the said ment, shall at the same time be offered to borough; and that many legal votes tenbe presented, Mr. Speaker shall direct dered for the said petitioners were resuch Petitions to be all of them delivered jected ; and a great number of persons, at the table, where they shall be classed, not legally entitled to vote, were admitted and read in the following order, viz. to vote at the said election for the said Bach Petitions as complain that no return R. B. Robson and H. Gurney; and sundry

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