whoever they might be, a great influence over the debates of the House. He hoped, however, that members would still insist on the right they enjoyed in good old times, namely, that of making motions whenever they thought proper, and without notice too. He, for one, would always claim that undoubted right, and always exercise it according to his discre tion. Lord Milton also protested against it as contrary to the usage of parliament, and as tending to cramp the proceedings of the The motion was then carried. votes unduly entered for them; by which Ordered to be taken into consideration upon the 9th of February next. PRINCE REGENT'S SPEECH ON OPENING THE SESSION.] On the question that the Report of the Address, in answer to the Prince Regent's Speech on opening the session, be brought up, Mr. Creevey rose and observed, that more time ought to be allowed for the consideration of the many important topics touched on in the Prince Regent's Speech, and especially the three wars in which we were engaged, the policy of which he was not yet prepared to approve. The Speech contained an omission, which was also, in his view of the subject, very important. RESOLUTION RESPECTING ORDERS AND The Prince Regent had expressed his reliNOTICES.] Lord Castlereagh, pursuant to ance, that the House of Commons would notice, moved to revive the regulations furnish the supplies, but without at all adwhich had been adopted last session, re- verting to the perilous state of our finances specting the Orders of the Day entered in and commerce. That this was an unusual the book, and the Notices for Motions. and ill-advised proceeding, he referred to His lordship observed, that the business of some former Addresses to prove. Did the House had been much facilitated by set- the ministers know nothing of the state of ting apart two days in the week, in which the finances, had they withheld all knowthe Orders of the Day should have the pre-ledge of our commercial distresses from cedency of motions, without, however, de- the Prince Regent, or did they deny the priving any hon. member of the right of existence of such distresses? The House, calling the attention of the House to any he thought, would be better employed in subject he might think proper. The noble inquiring into the financial state of the lord moved in consequence, "That in this country than in voting the proposed Adpresent session of parliament all Orders of dress; for it had been acknowledged by the Day, set down in the Order Book for the right hon. the Chancellor of the ExMondays and Fridays, shall be disposed chequer, and by a right hon. gentleman of before the House will proceed upon any of great financial knowledge, who unformotions of which Notices shall be enteredtunately was not now a member of the in the Order Book." Mr. Whitbread observed, that this motion was couched in the same terms as that against which he had contended last session. He did not mean, in consequence, to renew in the present instance the arguments he had used on that occasion; but he would renew his protest against a novel measure, which, while it produced no manner of advantage, gave the ministers, House, (Mr. Tierney), that the present system could not be persevered in, and as a remedy the Chancellor of the Exche quer's nostrum was, a tax on capital!How, in the present state of things, could they think of pledging themselves to the support of the war in the peninsula, on its present scale? What he knew was, that our expences last year were 121 millions; that notwithstanding the resolutions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which declared the paper money to be equal in value to gold, the public annuitants had been robbed of one third of their incomes, and that, not for the benefit of the public, but for the benefit of the Bank Company; and then the effect of this system must be, the annihilation of all stock-holders. These were his reasons for opposing the present Address.-The hon. member, after having adverted to the parliamentary farce attending the opening of parliament -two well-dressed gentlemen coming down to the House with speeches in their pockets; well-written essays or themes proposed by ministers-concluded by moving as an amendment, that the Report be brought up this day s'ennight. Mr. Fremantle further impressed upon the House the necessity of inquiring into the present state of the public expenditure, before the Report at the bar was agreed to. As to the general subject of the royal Speech, he was decidedly of opinion, that our prospects at the present moment were not nearly so bright as at the commencement of the last session of parliament. The war in which we had injudiciously plunged ourselves with America, was in no degree counterbalanced by the peace that had been concluded with Russia. With regard to the peninsula, he was persuaded that, by the battle of Salamanca we had gained nothing but glory, and that the freedom of Spain was no nearer in its accomplishment than when the marquis of Wellington was posted at Torres Vedras. At the same time that he disapproved of the Address, he acknowledged that he could not vote for the Amendment that had been last night offered to supersede it, and which recommended propositions for peace to the Prince Regent. He thought such a proposition coming from the House, would inevitably defeat its own object, and lower the country in the eyes of the enemy. Mr. Robinson was surprised that the hon. gentleman who had just sat down, could have advanced that the late campaign in the peninsula had left our affairs in that quarter in a worse situation. This gross error, into which many other honourable gentlemen had fallen, arose from their considering the campaign as beginning at the battle of Salamanca, whereas, in fact, it had begun at the taking of Ciudad Rodrigo; and this was the only fair point of view in which it could be considered. The hon. gentleman then 2 followed the operations of lord Wellington, from the taking of that town. It was true, he had been compelled to retire from before Burgos, and to evacuate Madrid, but it was absurd to expect constant success in war; and he was sorry to observe, that on all occasions, we were too prone to be exalted or depressed beyond measure, by success, or partial failures. The fact was, that the campaign so much blamed, had driven the French from a great part of the western provinces of Spain, had forced them to evacuate the south, and to raise the siege of Cadiz, the capture of which they considered as of such importance in a military point of view, that they sat two years and a half before that place, regardless of every other advantage they might have obtained by concentrating their troops.-As to America, he would venture to assert, that, as in the first instance no means were neglected of preserving peace, so it would appear that no exertions had been wanting to prosecute the war when it was found inevitable. Mr. Rose said, he wished to correct a mistake of the hon. gentleman who had moved the amendment-a mistake which had occasioned much misconception out of doors. His right hon. friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had never propos ed a tax on capital, and from all the attention which he himself had given to the subject, he was convinced, that such a tax was altogether impracticable. A right reverend prelate (the bishop of Llandaff) had indeed written a pamphlet on the subject some years ago, but still, after the most mature consideration, he remained satisfied of the impossibility and impracti cability of such a tax. Mr. Stuart Wortley deprecated the idea of making the miseries of the people the grounds of suing for peace, as it would debase the nation, raise the demands of the enemy, and abandon all the fruits of the struggle in which so much money and so much treasure had been lavished. Having said thus much, he trusted, on the other hand, that ministers would pay due regard to the real sufferings of the people, and not let any opportunity escape by which they might procure a peace consistent with the honour, safety, and interests of the country. Lord Milton earnestly called upon the House to reflect upon the ruinous tendency of prosecuting the war with America. He believed that the two governments were decidedly hostile, while the Mr. Stephen warmly resisted the statement of the noble lord, that there was any irritation in the illustrious person at the head of the government towards the Amecan people. The Speech delivered only yesterday contradicted the assertion, for it breathed only a spirit of amity and conciliation. two nations were as decidedly pacific. | ately demand an abandonment of our He lamented to see the person at the head system of blockade, and a renunciation of the government guided so implicitly of the right of search. Could the noble by his enmity to the United States. This lord find any way to negociate with Amemight be a bold assertion, but he was rica without abandoning our rights; or not afraid to declare what he sincerely was he prepared to say that we ought to thought. abandon them? With regard to the concessions made to America by ministers, it was a point on which he differed from them.-The hon. and learned gentleman then entered into a detailed discussion of the Orders in Council and our blockade system, and observed, that to exaggerated statements of civil war and revolution among our manufacturers, might be attri buted the concessions to America-and, to those concessions, the present war. A heavy responsibility attached to the real authors of this unnatural war between two countries united in origin, in language, and in manners, and who were, besides, the only countries in the world where civil liberty existed: but he saw no prospect of any peace consistent even with our existence, since the measure of American demands was determined by the unjust and unlimited aggressions of France. Lord Milton explained, that he had been misunderstood; he had no such allusion as the hon. and learned gentleman had imputed to him. Mr. Stephen resumed; he was satisfied that he had been mistaken, and that the noble lord did not mean what he had erroneously attributed to him. He would not enter into minute points, but he would assert in opposition to the noble lord, that an equal spirit of irritation did not prevail in the two governments; on the contrary, a friendly disposition had ever been dis played by the government of Great Bri- Mr. Wilberforce deprecated any intentain. The statement of our wrongs was tion on the part of the House to call on not intended to irritate, but to conciliate the ministers to pledge themselves to seek by conviction. For his own part, however peace, as such conduct would defeat the much he might be interested in the dis-object it professed to have in view. It cussion of the question of America, he entertained no personal feeling of irritation, but the Orders in Council he had defended with his tongue and his pen and he could appeal to authorities across the Atlantic, for testimonies of his moderate and respectful language towards the government of America. Had the noble lord forgotten the language used to Mr. Erskine, when he, bearing concessions to them, was received with taunts, instead of the terms of amity and conciliation? Had he forgotten the treatment of Mr. Jackson, who was driven from the country without being permitted to wait for the instructions of his government? The noble lord must have a short memory, if he did not recollect that the govern Mr. Ponsonby, although he generally ment of America had declared, that they coincided with his hon. friend who was expected the treaty of Utrecht should be the mover of the present amendment, yet considered the maritime law of nations differed from him on this occasion. By a law that would render the navy of Eng-receiving the report, the House by no land useless, except to guard her own coast. When, by a fatal event, it became probable that the Orders in Council would be rescinded, did not America abandon that ground of complaint, and immedi would perhaps create a popular cry in the country for peace, and raise the demand of those with whom we should have to negociate. He did not doubt that the ministers participated in the wishes of the people, as they regarded peace; there appeared no disinclination on the part of government to negociate, and as our prospects on the continent were now somewhat better than heretofore, he hoped those prospects would not be blasted by any premature solicitations on the part of the House. He knew of but one instance of a petition to the king to make peace, being carried in that House, and in that instance it had been productive of more evil than good. means adopted the opinions contained in the Address; it was, therefore, unnecessary to postpone its consideration: the Address was a natural consequence of the Speech, and resembled a mere common place letter, in which were a great number of words of course, ending with "I have the honour to be, Sir, with the highest respect, your devoted humble servant," when, in fact, the writer felt none of that respect and devotion of which he talked. To debate the Address, paragraph by paragraph, would take up the whole of the session. Many of the topics treated of in the Address, would require mature deliberation; and as to the Spanish war, he thought it would be best discussed when the Chancellor of the Exchequer should come to the House for supplies. Lord Castlereagh agreed entirely with the last speaker, but wished to correct a statement made by an hon. and learned gentleman, that the government of this country had at any period conceded the right of the Americans to insist on the repeal of the Orders in Council. one, then by another; at length up started the late Treasurer of the Navy, (Mr. Rose) whom he might denominate the patriarch of the Treasury Bench, and who chose to disclaim all idea of a tax on capital, which he threw upon a right reverend bishop, many hundred miles off. If it really was the natural child of the right reverend prelate, he thought it very hard to throw it at his door, under such circumstances.— The hon. gentleman then proceeded to detail the occurrences of his political life, and repelled the attack made on him by Mr. Stephen, whom he designated as the author and supporter of the Orders in Council-he who eulogised them while living, and lamented them when dead.— He stated, in reply to Mr. Wilberforce, that the petition for peace carried in that House, was at the close of the American war, when the distressed manufacturers burst the doors of the House, and by a reMr. Whitbread wished to say a few cital of their distresses obtained the petiwords in reply to what had fallen from the tion. Mr. Burke was then the eloquent hon. and learned member opposite, and but unsuccessful advocate of peace-deaf also from the late member for Yorkshire, was the parliament!-deaf were the miwho had honoured him with the appella- nisters!-deaf was the prince !—that war, tion of friend. The hon. and learned so obstinately persevered in, ended in the gentleman opposite had informed them, independence of America, and its consethat a day would be appointed for consi- quences were now visiting us. He denied dering the American question; and as the that he was (as he had been characterised) hon. and learned gentleman had returned a man who wished to drag his country to to that House unchanged, he would ven- the feet of France, and asserted, that he ture to predict that it would not be a short had ever acted on principle, and during the day. The hon. and learned gentleman had whole course of the war had been the contold them, that he had employed his pen sistent advocate of peace. The hon. genand tongue in support of the Orders in tleman next adverted to the Amendment Council: his pen he had employed before which he had proposed on the preceding he entered parliament, and no doubt that evening, and which, he contended, had pen had gained him his seat; and that he been misunderstood; as it did not call on had used his tongue subsequently to his the Prince Regent to enter into an immebeing in parliament, the House could diate negociation for peace; but to cause abundantly testify. It appeared singular, an enquiry to be made as to the feelings however, that the hon. and learned gen- of the enemy on that point. He then tleman, who spoke on every subject, stated, in allusion to what fell from Mr. should have been silent the day that his Ponsonby on the preceding evening, the darling offspring, the Orders in Council, various occasions on which the subject of breathed their last; but so it was. He had negociations with France had been before heard that the marquis of Wellington had the House, and the conduct he had puronce been employed to prevent a certain sued. Although he had delivered his opiright hon. doctor (Duigenan) from speak- nion on those occasions, he never had, being; and as he had observed a noble lord fore last night, submitted any specific proseated by the hon. and learned gentleman position on the question. But now, when during the debate to which he alluded, he he saw an opportunity occur most favourhad no doubt that his employment was able for this country, and when he saw no precisely similar to that of the noble mar- manifestation in the speech from the quis. He had been very anxious to hear throne, of a desire to seize that opportu the right hon. the Chancellor of the Ex-nity, he conceived it right that parliament chequer; but as often as he had attempted should interfere. They must all recollect, to rise, he had been prevented, first by that the speeches from the throne during the last 20 years, contained, in general, a lieved, that was all that could be said. As The Chancellor of the Exchequer wished to make a few observations on what had fallen from some of the preceding speakers. An hon. gentleman had alluded to the expenditure of 1809. In that year, the bills drawn from the peninsula on this country amounted to 2,800,000l. In the present year they amounted to 11,500,000l. So much for the comparative expenditure of the war during these two years; and so much in answer to those who imagined that government had not made the most strenuous exertions in support of the war in the peninsula. In answer to the assertion of an hon. gentleman (Mr. Creevey) who said he had read all the king's speeches to parliament, and that in all of them mention was made of the commerce and revenue of the country, he would mention that in the years 1809 and 1807, no reference whatever was made to the state of the revenue or commerce. With respect to the allusions to a tax on capital, which he was said to have announced, he begged leave to recommend to the attention of the hon. gentleman who charged him with this, the treatise of Dean Swift on Political Lying. He never declared that a tax on capital was to be proposed. All that he said was, that such a measure had been resorted to in other countries; in Holland, Switzerland and Hamburgh for example, and that he believed it might be practicable in this country; but he stated, that he was far from thinking that we had arrived at such an emergency as made this scheme necessary here. AR |