H. OF R.] American Seamen-Military Appropriations. The Committee reported their agreement with the resolution reported from the Committee of Claims The question was taken, that the House do agree with the Committee of the Whole House in their agreement to the said report, and resolved in the affirmative. PROTECTION OF AMERICAN SEAMEN. On motion of Mr. LIVINGSTON, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on [MARCH, 1797. -$256,450 For the payment of the Army For forage 47,395 245,283 14,904 83,050 Mr. W. SMITH then proposed to insert a new item, in consequence of the bill just passed, "For the purchase of horses and the equipment of the cavalry, $16,085." Mr. GALLATIN said, the items which had been the bill in addition to an act for the relief and agreed to was upon the ground of an increase of protection of American seamen. This bill was 126 dragoons which were not in the former bill. brought forward to supply an omission in the bill The item now under consideration went to propassed last session, respecting the manner in vide horses and equipments for an additional comwhich certificates of citizenship should be grant-pany of cavalry. It appeared that this company ed. This part of the bill occasioned considerable was heretofore without either, so that they must discussion last session, and was a subject of con- have been employed as dismounted dragoons; and ference between the two Houses; but, from some if they now appropriated the sum before them, unaccountable neglect, was omitted in the law, they would, in fact, add a company of horse to the and had been supplied by the PRESIDENT, who establishment. He believed it to be the general had adopted the plan agreed upon by the two opinion that they had cavalry sufficient at present; Houses, except that he had somewhat enlarged it. indeed, it was the opinion of a large majority of The bill now proposed was a copy of the pro- that House that none were necessary; but if they visions which had been acted upon by the PRE- did appropriate for any, he thought they ought not to go beyond the present establishment. BIDENT. Mr.HARPER spoke at considerable length against the mode laid down for the ascertaining of citizenship, which was to be proved, in case of the failure of a copy of the register where the person was born, by one credible witness. Mr. H. proposed that the testimony of three freeholders should be neces sary. Messrs. W. LYMAN, BUCK, and LIVINGSTON, severally spoke against the motion, when the question was put and negatived-three members only rising in favor of it. The bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading to-morrow. BALANCES DUE FROM STATES. The House proceeded to consider the amendments proposed by the Senate to the resolution calling upon the States for the payment of certain Mr. W. SMITH said, if they refused to make the that one of the two companies of cavalry should appropriation under consideration, they declared act as infantry. By the bill passed yesterday, it was left altogether to the option of the PRESIDENT to employ them either as cavalry or infantry: but under the necessity of employing them as infantry if this appropriation was withheld, he would be only, and this House would now exercise a discretion which only yesterday they had vested in the Executive. It would be observed, that, in the Message of the PRESIDENT, he had fully stated the reasons why dragoons would be requisite. The business upon which one of the companies was at present employed was to escort the Commissioners employed in running the boundary lines betwixt the territory of the United States and the Indians; the Mr. W. SMITH moved to recede from their dis-other was indispensable for the protection of the agreement to the Senate's amendments, which was negatived there being only twelve votes in favor balances. of it. Mr. NICHOLAS then moved to adhere, and the motion was carried. Mr. SWANWICK reported a bill to authorize a statement of the claims of George Smith and John Robertson, formerly slaves in Algiers; which was referred to a Committee of the Whole. THURSDAY, March 2. frontiers. of refusing this appropriation? One of the comWhat, Mr. S. asked, would be the consequence panies of dragoons would be obliged to act as infantry, and Government would be compelled to employ militia-horse at a great expense. If this was economy, he was mistaken in his ideas of economy. The sum was conformable to the estimate which he had received from the War Office. Mr. HARTLEY was in favor of the appropriation, that the PRESIDENT might be at full liberty to employ the troops on foot or on horseback, accord The bill for the relief of American seamen was ing as the service might require. read the third time and passed. MILITARY APPROPRIATIONS. On motion of Mr. W. SMITH, the House went into a Committee of the Whole on the bill making appropriation for the Military Establishment, when the following items were agreed to without debate: Mr. NICHOLAS thought, while they were making appropriations, this object might as well be included. If these men were to be kept, they ought to be properly equipped. He said it was the opinion of the PRESIDENT and the Secretary of War that cavalry was necessary, and therefore he had concluded it would be proper, and wished them to be kept up, so as to be called into service when ever necessary. Mr. MILLEDGE thought there was great need of cavalry; it would be an object of policy, as, by information he had received from the Governor of Georgia, (which he had in his hand, and which was corroborated by a late Governor,) horse were absolutely necessary-he thought three companies on the frontier. He therefore was in favor of the appropriation. Mr. VARNUM had no doubt but the gentleman from Georgia, and every gentleman in the House, would be glad to have horse and infantry too kept up in their State: every part would be glad to have the public money expended upon it. He could not see why a body of cavalry should be kept up in a time of peace. He thought the Legislature had as good a right to judge as any person, notwithstanding the authorities produced to sanction the appropriation. Mr. V. had no doubt, if this was granted, that application would soon be made again for a similar purpose. He hoped this appropriation would not take place; it would be a small saving, and might as well be made, as there was so much want of it. He could have wished the troops reduced to two regiments, which he thought quite sufficient for a Peace Establishment. He hoped the PRESIDENT's ideas on the subject would not obtain to govern the decisions of the House, as we have the power, said he, to withhold appropriations; and what gentlemen who were locally concerned should say, he could not be guided by; as soldiers would consume their produce and spend money amongst them, consequently they were interested. [H. or R. from Georgia, and the reasons of the PRESIDENT, that horse were necessary, and he therefore should wish the appropriation to be passed. Mr. KITCHELL said, gentlemen seemed to be mistaken; they were continually alluding to the law passed yesterday. There was not a word about two troops of horse yesterday. All we then said, was, that we would not say there should not be two troops of horse; the Message of the PRESIDENT did not say that two troops should be mounted, nor do I say, said Mr. K., that horse are not necessary; I think some are necessary; but the inquiry seemed to be, now, whether the House were to vote for more. Mr. W. SMITH said, the gentleman's observations were very extraordinary; he surely could not have attended to the subject, to say that the House had not passed the law authorizing two troops of horse. We have a law in force, said he, to ascertain and fix the Military Establishment, in which we authorize the PRESIDENT to employ the two troops of dragoons, to serve either on horse or foot, at his discretion. The bill we sent up yesterday does not repeal that law, and yet gentlemen would now come forward to oppose the appropriation, and determine they shall act on foot. He could not think with what propriety the restriction could be made as the gentleman from Massachusetts wishes, nor could he think how the gentleman from Jersey had attended. Should we now say they should be at our direction, and that we would not grant money without? This would be strange conduct-an assumption of power which he hoped the House would never arrogate. Mr. KITCHELL said his meaning was, that the horse were not established yesterday, but before. Mr. HARTLEY said it appeared, from good testimony, that the troops were requisite to save the people on the frontiers from the depredations of the Indians; he thought, therefore, that they having been established before, the House were bound to make the appropriation to give effect, or show the great inconsistency. Mr. CRAIK really lamented that the gentleman had not been in the House yesterday, at the time the subject was more under consideration: he might then have inveighed against the PRESIDENT. The observations might have come with more propriety, if they had been made before the bill passed, and when under discussion; but, after a law has passed the proper authorities-after it has been resolved to have these troops of horse-to say, we Mr. NICHOLAS said it was not his intention to will not appropriate money to carry it into effect, vote for these men at all; but if they must have is strange conduct. If the determination of the them, perhaps it would be most economical to equip gentleman was to oppose the bill, he should have them. With respect to their power of withholdused every means to that purpose, and if not effec-ing the appropriation, he had no doubt; and though tual, at least to suffer others to enjoy their willespecially a majority. For the sake of consistency, he hoped the gentleman would withdraw his opposition, and not in this side-way try to defeat the operation of a bill which has passed. The cavalry were voted because they were supposed to be necessary, and now a gentleman comes forward, endeavoring to excite the jealousy of the House on the Executive's meddling with the Military Establishment. Mr. C. said he was pleased that the PRESIDENT had refused it, if it was only to convince some gentlemen that he had power to refuse that or any other bill. [Here Mr. DENT asked the gentleman if he was in order.] Mr. CRAIK said he only wished to prove the inconsistency of the member's conduct. He thought the House should not betray a want of consistency. He believed, from the statement of the member they had yesterday passed a law establishing two companies of cavalry, it was in the power of that House, of the Senate, or of the PRESIDENT, to refuse an appropriation. This was the sense of the Constitution. When the bill came before the House, he should give his negative to the additional horse; for, if they were always to keep up the same number of men, whether in war or peace, except two-thirds of both Houses were found to oppose the will of the PRESIDENT, they might bid adieu to all restraint upon Executive power, and count upon a military Government, if ever an Executive should be found whose will it should be to make it so. If these were to be kept up, he would still say the House had better go to $100,000 expense to mount them on horseback. Mr. VARNUM said it was observed by gentlemen that those troops were not mounted; if so, there H. OF R.] Naval Appropriations. [MARCH, 1797. need be no, apprehension of their being manned, whilst seamen's wages remained at the price they were, because men could not be got on the terms stipulated in the law for this purpose. If a smaller sum than was mentioned were to be granted, they might as well give nothing. must have been a very lavish waste of money. Mr. PARKER said, it would require all the money However that might be, gentlemen who state this which had been named for finishing the frigates, matter ought to state it fairly. They ought not without rigging, though there would be a considerto say that two companies of cavalry were yester-able quantity of materials left on hand. There day voted. No, they were part of the old War Establishment. It was true, the House had not the power to repeal the law; but one thing was in their power, and that they ought to do, if they see this part of the standing army necessary. The Constitution returns the power to act on it once in every two years to each branch of the Legislature. The House, he thought, had good right to exercise their own opinion on the necessity of mounting these men. It was not in the power of one branch to repeal the law which keeps these men, but we ought to consider whether they are to be put in the same situation as in time of war. Mr. V. said he discharged his duty in voting against this appropriation. The House had a right to judge, and it was not in the power of the PRESIDENT to act for them. Mr. HEATH said that the subject had been fully discussed, and therefore he should only observe, that, from the authority which had recommended the mounting of these cavalry, he should vote for the appropriation. Mr. MILLEDGE repeated his arguments on the local situation of the country, and asserted the absolute necessity of the troops. The motion was put and carried there being 56 in favor of it. NAVAL APPROPRIATIONS. Mr. W. SMITH then proposed to add $172,000 for finishing the frigates United States, Constitution, and Constellation. Mr. NICHOLAS said he should be against appropriating so large a sum for this purpose. It was the sense of the House, on a former occasion, that it would be proper to appropriate such a sum as should put them in such a situation as to secure them from injury, but to stop short of making them fit for sea, that the expense of manning them might be avoided. Mr. SITGREAVES supposed the blank was now proposed to be filled with the same sum which had been agreed upon on a former occasion. If this were the case, it ought to dissipate the fears of the gentleman from Virginia, [Mr. NICHOLAS,] as it was well known that the sum was predicated upon a supposition that the frigates were not to be manned. If they were to be manned, a further appropriation would certainly be necessary. Mr. NICHOLAS said, it appeared to him that if all gentlemen were agreed that this business should go no further than the building of the frigates, they could have no hesitation to leave undone some of the internal finishing work of the vessels; if they did not wish to put them into such a situation as that they might force them into service upon the spur of an alarm, they could have no objection to their being left in such a situation as to be perfectly secure, but not finished fit for sea. Mr. SITGREAVES said this subject had heretofore undergone a very full discussion. A motion was then made merely to finish the hulls, which was negatived. It was then said that contracts were made for all the materials, and that except the frigates were finished, the engagements which had been entered into could not be fulfilled. But there was another security against the danger apprehended. They had lately come to a determination to make all appropriations specific and particular. What was the language of the present appropriation? It was for finishing the frigates, not for manning them. If it had been said to be for carrying into effect the law for the Naval Establishment, there might have been some little ground for apprehension; but, as it now stood, the Executive could not proceed to man the vessels. manning clause of the former act. He had made inquiries respecting contracts, and found the money in hand was equal to the fulfilment of them; if there had been any others, he supposed they should have heard of them. He again said there were many ornamental parts of the vessels which might be as well thrown upon the expense of next year as of this. Mr. SWANWICK said a new view of the subject seemed to be brought forward at present. Before, they had determined to finish the frigates; but now, they were not to finish them, lest they should be Mr. NICHOLAS said, when they voted the sum manned, but to finish them in part only. A gen- now asked for finishing the frigates, the expenditleman yesterday said, when speaking on the sub-ture was accompanied by a law to repeal the ject of the PRESIDENT's Message, that he could not suppose they would have refused to pay the soldiers, though there might be some deficiency in the expression of the act; and might he not suppose, said Mr. S., that if the frigates were so nearly finished, he might go on to finish them, and trust to the Legislature to furnish the money? These frigates, he said, were a very extraordinary conIt seemed as if it was only when it were to be made a present of to Algiers, that a frigate could be finished, and not when it was for the protection of our own commerce. He trusted, however, that there would not be a majority found in that House who would vote against finishing the frigates: as to manning them, that would remain for a future consideration. cern. Mr. SWANWICK said, if Government could have had foresight sufficient to have known that there would have been any objections made to the finishing of the frigates, they would certainly not have entered into any contracts to that extent, but they could not possibly do this. He wished, if gentlemen were determined the frigates should not be made use of, that they would say at once they should be sold on the stocks. With respect to manning of them from the money proposed to be appropriated, that was impossible, and he saw no reason for making the business doubly sure by any other precaution. Mr. HOLLAND said it was, with great propriety, intended by many members in the House to keep the frigates in such a state as to prevent their being manned. If we appropriate to finish them, said he, we shall be exposed to all the difficulties depicted by the gentleman from Pennsylvania; for some way would be devised to procure and pay men, if the House put it in the power of the Executive to do it: therefore, he hoped, to avoid all that trouble and expense, they would not vote to finish them. For what purpose said he, should they be finished, unless it were intended to man them? To avoid every danger of that kind, he should vote against the sum proposed. [H. OF R. any authority, and the pledging of the faith of the nation to pay the expense of the law-suits of our citizens in London, were strong proofs of what the Executive could do. Mr. G. said he did not mean to bring into view any arguments relative to the propriety of establishing a Navy in this country. He should vote against the present motion, because he did not wish to see the frigates at sea, and because he conceived a Navy to be prejudicial to the true interests of this country. Something had been said about contracts, but he did not believe any existed. They had last year been told the same thing. Any person reading the statements which had been furnished to them, would perceive that the business was not done by contract, but that men were employed by Government, and regular wages paid to them. The frigate which had been built for Algiers had been built by contract, they had an estimate of it at so much a ton, but this was not the case with respect to any other of the frigates. Mr. HARTLEY said, that last year the six frigates which had been before voted for were reduced to three, with intent to complete them. Was it not probable then, he would ask, that the PRESIDent would proceed to complete those frigates, according to the power given him? Was it not to be supposed that contracts were entered into for that purpose? No person could suppose but contracts were made. Then certainly the House ought not to expose the Executive to the ridiculous situation of receding from his contracts! They would not be finished before next session, and therefore no danger of equipping could be apprehended. It may be necessary to use them, but at any rate it would be running no risk to have them finished, as they could not be manned by this appropri-vania [Mr. GALLATIN] moved to postpone the bill ation. Mr. W. SMITH did not wish to go into a long debate on the subject, when they had so much business before them, in order to show whether it was proper for this country to have a Navy or not; the only question now was, whether they ought to appropriate money for finishing the three frigates. If they did not do it, all the money which had been already expended would probably be lost. The only objection to the doing of this seemed to arise from a fear that the vessels would be manned, though when this subject was before them, the other day, the gentleman from Pennsylrelative to the repealing or suspending the law for Mr. GALLATIN said, there seemed to be involved manning the vessels till next session, from an in the present consideration the question whether opinion that, by the present law, the PRESIDENT or not we should have a Navy. As to himself, was not authorized to man them. That gentlehe should vote against the present appropriation, man seemed now, however, in contradiction to because if the frigates were completely finished himself, to fear the PRESIDENT would put a difhe should fear they would get to sea. When they ferent construction upon the law: if he did not had on a former occasion conserted to finish them, believe the PRESIDENT would violate the law, he it was under the condition of the law for manning could not account for his refusing now to vote being repealed; but they now stood upon new the money which was merely necessary to finish ground. Mr. G. said he had been charged with the vessels. Mr. S. read an extract from the reinconsistency of opinion, from having before said port of the Secretary of War, to show the forward that he thought the PRESIDENT Would not be au- state in which the vessels were, and added, that thorized to proceed in the manning of the vessels they were bound in duty to finish them, were it under the present law, whilst he was now appre-only to prevent the loss of the money already exhensive that he might do so. He wished to be on pended upon them. sure ground. He did not know but the PRESI- Mr. DEARBORN observed, that if he was conDENT might put a different construction upon the vinced, from the documents which had been laid law from him. Indeed, from the experience they before them, that the sum now asked for was had had of Presidential discretion, they need not necessary merely to finish the frigates, he should be surprised if the vessels were sent to sea, though not hesitate to vote for it; but it was not a little no appropriation was made for the purpose, should extraordinary that the gentlemen on that committhe PRESIDENT Suppose there was any plea for tee (not even the chairman, who seemed to have doing so. As a proof of this power having been the business so much at heart) could not say wheexercised heretofore, Mr. G. referred to the West- ther this sum was necessary for finishing and rigern insurrection. In that case, he said, no appro-ging, or finishing without rigging, or for finishing, priation was made for the expense; but the law rigging, and manning. The frigate building in authorizes the PRESIDENT to call out the militia this city, the captain had told him, was calculated, when he shall see occasion to do so; he called in point of size to carry 62 guns, instead of 44; them out, and got money from the Treasury. In- which was one of the reasons they had cost so deed, the building of a frigate for Algiers, without much more than they had been estimated at. Mr. D. said, he suspected that the sum proposed would not only be sufficient to finish the hulls, but to rig and fit the vessels for sea, and until he had more satisfaction on the subject he could not consent to give his vote for it. Mr. KITTERA observed, that gentlemen first said, that under the present law, the PRESIDENT could not proceed to man and send the vessels to sea, but now they were apprehensive this might be done, though no appropriation was made for the purpose. This, he thought, somewhat inconsistent; but he believed whilst thirty dollars a month was given to seamen by merchants, and their law only authorized eleven to be given, there was not much to be feared on this head. Mr. AMES said, that gentlemen opposed to the finishing of the frigates, seemed to be also opposed to all ideas of this country ever becoming a naval Power; the necessity of this, he was persuaded, would ere long appear. It was not to be supposed that a nation whose commerce was greater than that of any other, except Great Britain, should go on long without a naval protection; and he believed the more strenuous the opposition shown against this measure, the sooner it would be accomplished; he was not therefore displeased to see the present violent opposition to everything which looked towards this object. [MARCH, 1797. sea, was it not necessary, before it was concluded that they should not be so built and equipped, that this law should be repealed by all the branches of the Legislature? No, say gentlemen, we can appropriate or not, according to our sovereign will and pleasure. If they possessed the power to nullify what was enacted by all the three branches of Government, it was greatly to be lamented. But if they could appropriate according to their will, they were bound to do it also according to their consciences too. It was not only a weapon, but a shield, which it was their duty to use with great caution, and according to law; for, if they were to use it contrarily, it would be to make that House the supreme power, it would be to usurp the supreme authority. Mr. Corr believed the only real question before them was, what sum they would appropriate for this object; he wished the mover would consent to leave the item blank. Mr. W. SMITH had no objection to its being left blank. Mr. VENABLE said, if this was a mere question of expense, it was very extraordinary that it should have called forth such a phillippic from the gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. AMES,] who had charged the House with arrogating to itself all the powers of Government; as being omnipotent. Upon what ground could he found such charges? If it were a question of expense merely, there could certainly be no ground for such charges; but if it were to be considered as a question of power, if they were to be told they dared not to withhold the appropriation in_question, here he would entrench himself as a Representative of the people; he had a right, as a member of that House, to vote against the expense which he thought improper, and he would exercise that right. Every branch of Government had the same right, and he wished them to exercise it. And he would not be told, when he was about to exercise this right, that he was arrogating to himself all the powers of Government. He was determined to exercise his discretion on every question which came before him for decision, and he would vote against this expense. It was not enough, Mr. A. said, for gentlemen to discourage the building of ships, they would also discredit the administration of Government; and nothing was more natural than that those who thought so ill of it themselves should endeavor to spread those opinions. This was done continually. With respect to the building of the frigates, he thought it was a wise step; and as to the extra expense and delay which had attended the business, he believed, gentlemen might take a share of the blame upon themselves, on account of the versatility which had been shown upon the occasion, in this day agreeing upon one thing, and that upon another. It was true, that another cause of extra expense was owing to a resolution which had been taken to make the ships much larger than was contemplated by the House; the vessel building here, he believed, was nearly 1,600 tons. He was glad that this alteration of plan Mr. NICHOLAS said, the gentleman from Mashad been adopted; not because more money would sachusetts [Mr. AMES] seldom spoke without castbe expended on this account; not because con- ing some denunciation against that House. He trary to the direction of the Legislature, but be- had, however, allowed that the PRESIDENT had cause true wisdom required it; they would now done, with respect to this fleet, ali that any genbe an overmatch for any frigate, or any vessel tleman had charged him with doing; he had even which the Algerines could send out against them. put the case stronger than any other person had These, he believed, were the views of the Execu- put it; for he had said that the Executive had tive in having them built of the size they were. determined to build the vessels of a larger size The number of the frigates agreed to be finished than had been contemplated by the Legislature, had been reduced to three; and these they last in order to be an overmatch for any other frigate. session passed a law to finish. But what was now All this, said Mr. N., may be right, and the approto be done? It was said they should not be fin-bation he gave this conduct, was a proof the genished. Who said this? Did the people? did the Government say it? No; that House alone said it so that that House were about to usurp the supreme authority. We are the Government, we are the people, we are every thing. But, if there be a law which says that these three frigates should be built and equipped for tleman thought so; all he had to say was, that it was not legal; it might be patriotic, and be done with an intention to serve the country; the PRESIDENT might understand the interests of the country better than they; but it was a conduct which would not meet with the same approbation from him that it met with from the gentleman |