Mr. HALDEMAN. No, sir. Senator GURNEY. One of the questions or issues brought up at the La Costa meeting in California was this business of raising money, and I know you testified about it in your statement. My recollection was that you did not recall that the issue was discussed; is that correct? Mr. HALDEMAN. I have no recollection of the discussion of money in that meeting. Senator GURNEY. Of course, out of that meeting arose the dispatch of Mr. Moore on the mission to New York to talk to Mr. Mitchell about raising more money but you have no recollection of that at all? Mr. HALDEMAN. It is my understanding from Mr. Moore's testimony that he went to New York to talk to Mr. Mitchell about a number of things. Senator GURNEY. Well, that is true. There were other things at the meeting. Mr. HALDEMAN. And among them was the question of raising money. I have no recollection of that having been brought up. As I said this morning, I was in, I believe, most of the meetings or I was in the room most of the time that the meetings in La Costa were underway and I simply have no recollection of the discussion of money. As I said in my statement, if there was one, I am virtually certain that it would have been in the context of the type that Mr. Moore described which was very incidental to the meeting. That was not a principal subject under discussion at that time. It may have been a matter that came up peripherally. Senator GURNEY. Mr. Dean stated-either in his testimony orreally I think both in testimony before the committee and also in discussions with committee staff prior to his appearance here, that he reported to you several days after the meetings with Mr. Mitchell on the Liddy plan that involved Dean, Mitchell, Magruder, and Liddy— reported to you about this Liddy plan. Do you have any such recollection? Mr. HALDEMAN. As I have stated, I don't have a recollection of the instance of his reporting that to me. I have a general recollection of his telling me that there had been such an occasion and I have a very clear recollection of his telling me last summer some time and a very clear recollection of his telling me in March of this year in considerable detail and several times of such a meeting. I also mentioned earlier that there is a date question there which raises some puzzlement in my mind as to what actually happened there. I had been willing to accept Mr. Dean's recollection, recounting to me of this meeting on the basis of the check of my log which had indicated that there had been such a-that I had had a meeting with Mr. Dean on February 1. That was in March when I was back looking through logs. Then in June or July as these hearings got underway and I discovered that the two planning meetings were not in December and January as Dean had told me but were in fact on January 27 and February 4, I now find a question in my mind. Senator GURNEY. And your best recollection is that he did not report to you in February of 1972? Mr. HALDEMAN. I would have to put it that I don't recall his doing so. He has told me about it so many times that I have heard the story fairly frequently. Senator GURNEY. Did I understand you to say that your logs do not show that you had a meeting with Dean in February? Mr. HALDEMAN. My log does show that I did have a meeting with Dean on February 1 and that that was the only meeting I had with Dean in either February or January Senator GURNEY. I see. Mr. HALDEMAN [continuing]. Of 1972. Senator GURNEY. Do you recall what that meeting on February 1 involved? Mr. HALDEMAN. No, sir. Senator GURNEY. One of the points of controversy here which has become important is the so-called Dean investigation in June, July, and August following the break-in. Mr. Dean's testimony, of course, was he never conducted such investigation. What is your recollection? Mr. HALDEMAN. My recollection is absolutely clear, totally unequivocal, and without any shade of doubt in any way, shape, or form, and that is that Mr. Dean was conducting an investigation, that everybody who would be in a position to be interested or concerned with it. knew that he was, and that Mr. Dean knew that he was. I included in my statement some quotes from exhibit 34-43* which to my view, at least, confirmed that Mr. Dean knew he was and if I could take just a second, because I didn't put it in there, I would like to read-I think it is two sentences from exhibit, I believe 34-39** which Mr. Dean also put into evidence before this committee Senator GURNEY. Go right ahead. Mr. HALDEMAN. And in which this incidentally, 34-39 is the draft of a proposed letter or affidavit to be submitted by Mr. Dean to the Senate Judiciary Committee in response to its request that he appear before that committee with regard to matters in connection with the Gray confirmation hearings, and this draft which Mr. Dean put into evidence shows on its last page a line for sworn, you know, I swear that this is the truth or something of that sort, which would indicate that it was his intention to make this a sworn statement to the committee. Senator GURNEY. This, I suppose, was contemplated in response to the Judiciary Committee wanting Dean to come before itMr. HALDEMAN. That is correct. Senator GURNEY [continuing]. To testify in connection with his FBI reports that he obtained from the Justice Department. Mr. HALDEMAN. That is right, and in the process of that, on page 2 of exhibit 34-39 at the bottom, he enumerates facts that he would like to give to the committee concerning the matters which have been publicly raised and the second of those facts that he says he would like to give to the committee I would like to quote: Second, it has been suggested that the fact that I conducted an investigation of this matter at the direction of the President made it inappropriate for me to obtain FBI information relative to their investigation. To the contrary, in an investigation of this importance, it was incumbent on me to obtain all available information from every appropriate investigative resource and I would have been derelict indeed if I had not requested information from the FBI. *See Book 3, p. 1263. **See Book 3, p. 1252. That is in this draft that Mr. Dean himself has placed into evidence. And I say that one of the major puzzles in my mind in this whole case at this point in time is how John Dean possibly could contend or feel that he did not conduct an investigation, that he was not being looked to for conducting an investigation in the sense of being of White House involvement and of being aware of all of the facets of the ongoing investigation by other agencies. Now he was certainly not called in and commissioned "Chief Special Investigator for Watergate" and put in charge of all investigating activities that were being conducted in the Watergate matter, but he was the man at the White House who was investigating White House or potential White House involvement in Watergate and who was maintaining White House coordination with the other governmental agencies that were conducting the overall investigation of Watergate. That is, I believe, absolutely clear. Senator GURNEY. In other words, this affidavit which was never used before the Judiciary Committee prepared by him, states in effect that he was making an investigation? Mr. HALDEMAN. Well, it would appear so, Senator Gurney. I can't verify the document. I accept it as something that the committee has in evidence. Senator GURNEY. I think my 10 minutes have run out but let me ask just one other question. You know, March 13 has been a vital date in the Dean testimony. Mr. HALDEMAN. Yes. Senator GURNEY. That is, the meeting with the President on March 13. And he stated in that meeting, of course, the President brought up Executive clemency as well as the $1 million. I am curious. Why wasn't that tape listened to? Do you have any idea why the President didn't instruct you to listen to that tape as well as the one on the 21st and September 15? Mr. HALDEMAN. I don't know. For one thing, that was a meeting in which I was not present except for a few minutes. Senator GURNEY. Yes. Mr. HALDEMAN. It was that may have been one of the meetings of the tapes that the President listened to himself-also. As the President has indicated, he has listened to some of the tapes himself. Senator GURNEY. Thank you, Mr. Haldeman. My time has elapsed and I yield, Mr. Chairman. Senator ERVIN. Senator Inouye. Senator INOUYE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Haldeman, I am certain you have seen the letter of the President dated July 23, 1973, addressed to the chairman of this committee. If not Mr. HALDEMAN. Is that the letter that was read earlier, Senator? Senator INOUYE. I believe so. I will just read part of the first paragraph. Mr. HALDEMAN. Thank you. Senator INOUYE [reading]. Indeed, the special nature of tape recordings of private conversations is such that these principles apply with even greater force to tapes of private Presidential conversations than to Presidential papers. And in your opening statement on page 19, the third paragraph, you say: I have had access under the supervision of a Secret Service agent to my handwritten notes regarding conversations with the President which are in the President's files. I presume from this that the Secret Service agent was with you at all times. Mr. HALDEMAN. When I was in the files; yes, sir. Senator INOUYE. Do you recall the testimony of Mr. Alexander Butterfield? Mr. HALDEMAN. Yes, I do. Senator INOUYE. I am certain you recall that in response to an inquiry, Mr. Butterfield testified that these tapes were in the exclusive custody of a Secret Service agent at all times. Mr. HALDEMAN. I don't recall that but I am sure that was his understanding. Senator INOUYE. How, can you explain how this tape, the tape of September 21, was placed in your custody and permitted to take home and listen to in your living room or your den or wherever it was, at your leisure and I presume it was kept in your custody for nearly 24 hours, was it not? Mr. HALDEMAN. Yes; I am sure it was. Senator INOUYE. How would you explain that, sir? Here the President says that the tapes are much more important than Presidential Papers. You have indicated that when you were looking at your papers you had a Secret Service agent at all times and yet you were permitted to take this tape home. Mr. HALDEMAN. That is correct. First of all, I believe you said September 21. Senator INOUYE. March 15. Mr. HALDEMAN. No; this is the tape of September 15. Mr. HALDEMAN. Is the one-I just wanted to be sure we are talking about the right tape. But at the time that I took the tape home and listened to it, the existence of the tapes was not known to anyone other than the limited people that Mr. Butterfield identified, and it was not contemplated, I do not believe, that its existence would ever be known to people, and it was a request to review material for the President which he knew I was familiar with and concerning a meeting in which I had been in attendance. Now, I should-let me also say just so the record is completely open on this, that I also had several other tapes in my possession at that time of other meetings which it had also been suggested or requested that I review but which I did not listen to because I believe they involved, I think all of them involved meetings. at which I had not been in attendance at any time, any part of the meeting. In the September 15 meeting I had been in attendance for the entire meeting, and I decided not to listen to the tapes of the meetings to which I had not been-at which I had not been present-and I returned them without listening to them. Senator INOUYE. Are you suggesting that the special label of top secret is placed on these secrets after Mr. Butterfield made it known to us, that prior to that it was all right for private citizens to have access to it? Mr. HALDEMAN. No, sir. I think that the access here was not in the capacity as private citizen but in a capacity as a former assistant to the President who was aware of the existence of the tape and was able, and had been present at the meeting, was able to review the tape for the President and report to him on its content. Senator INOUYE. I gather from your opening remarks that you admire the President very much, sir. Mr. HALDEMAN. Yes, sir. Senator INOUYE. And that you have at no time knowingly disobeyed any of his lawful instructions? Mr. HALDEMAN. I, in all honesty, would not be able to say that but wherever I have disobeyed any of his instructions knowingly I have informed him. Senator INOUYE. We have here a letter dated July 30 addressed to your attorney, Mr. Wilson, and it says in part, "The President has requested that you inform the committee that Mr. Haldeman has been instructed by the President to decline to testify to such matters." And yet, unless my recollection is wrong, you appear to some of us as being overly eager to testify on this. In fact, you had your addendum ready. Mr. HALDEMAN. Senator, I had two addenda ready because I wanted to be prepared for whatever the ruling might be. I have put the other addendum also into the committee record, which would have been the addendum I would have read had the committee not ruled that I was required to testify as to the earlier meeting. Senator INOUYE. I am certainly aware at the time of your testimony this tape in particular and a few others were rather controversial. Mr. HALDEMAN. Yes, sir. Senator INOUYE. And the outcome of whether these tapes would be made public or not would have to be eventually determined by the courts. Mr. HALDEMAN. Yes, sir. Senator INOUYE. And the President so indicated that that should be the route? Mr. HALDEMAN. Yes, sir. Senator INOUYE. Why did you not join the President in that route? Mr. HALDEMAN. Pardon me? Senator INOUYE. Why did you not obey the President's instruction? Mr. HALDEMAN. Why did I? Senator INOUYE. Why did you not obey it? Mr. HALDEMAN. I did not because the chairman ordered me not to. Senator INOUYE. Were you prepared Mr. HALDEMAN. The committee, as I understand it, instructed me that I must testify, I must not abide by the instruction of the President to withhold information gained solely from the tapes. Senator INOUYE. Will you abide by every wish Mr. HALDEMAN. Every wish. Senator INOUYE. Any order of this committee? Mr. HALDEMAN. Every lawful order of this committee properly made, certainly. Senator INOUYE. We have a few things we would like to get from you, Mr. Haldeman, at some later time. [Laughter.] |