DEC. 24, 1790.]

support of the laws.

GEO. WASHINGTON.

The report and papers referred to in the said message were read, and ordered to be sent to the Senate for their information.

He then entered more be laid before you; together with a copy of the Refully into a consideration of the subject, and port of the Secretary of State upon the same subobjected to the exemption, as creating an un-ject. warrantable distinction between citizens; throwing a burthen on the majority to relieve the minority; giving the minority privileges for shrinking from their duty. What criterion is there, he asked, to determine whether a man is under the impression of conscience? and concluded by saying, a fine can only determine the existence of this principle.

Mr. VINING was in favor of the exemption, but did not think it would be satisfactory to the people without qualifying it with an equivalent. Quakers, said he, are easily distinguished; every body knows them.

Mr. SMITH, of South Carolina.-This debate seems to be detailed, when gentlemen appear to think very much alike upon the subject. The question is, how the fine or penalty shall be assessed; though some appear disposed to exempt those people not only from personal service but from all commutation. It then seems necessary that the question should be first determined whether an equivalent shall be paid or not. According to the sentiments of some gentlemen, it is proposed to go further than even this State has gone, in which the greatest number of these persons exist; for when in convention, the question was taken for striking out the penalty, only seven or eight members rose in favor of it. But he thought this proposition improperly added to the first amendinent, and wished it might be withdrawn till the question whether the exemptions should be made by the States or by the General Government is determined.

amendments agreed to by the Committee of the whole to the bill for establishing a uniform militia throughout the United States.

The House resumed the consideration of the

The subject of exemptions being under consideration,

Mr. MADISON withdrew for the present his proposition in favor of persons religiously scrupulous of bearing arms. The question then was, whether the power of exempting should cised partly by the several States. be exclusively vested in Congress, or be exer

The question being called for,

and the question for striking out the words, Mr. STONE moved that it should be divided, except as hereinafter excepted," in order to admit the proposed amendment being put, was negatived; the substitute was superseded of

course.

the first section, to add these words, "or with a Mr. MOORE proposed as an amendment to good rifle, a shot bag, &c." which was agreed to. read, the debate on exemptions was renewed. The amendments to the second session being The amendment by which the particular States are empowered to exempt from militia duty the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial officers of the respective States was agreed to by a great majority.

Mr. MADISON then renewed his proposition bearing arms, in a different form from that bein favor of persons religiously scrupulous of fore offered, and to the following effect:

Mr. MADISON replied to Mr. SMITH. He said that he conceived his motion a proper amendment at this place, as the gentleman from Connecticut only moved that the exemptions "That all persons religiously scrupulous of bearing made by the several States should be sanction-arms, who shall make a declaration of the same before ed by the General Government; but it is a civil magistrate, shall be excused from performceded that this exemption is not made by the ing militia duty; but be liable to a penalty of several States, and therefore ought to be here from the post-office are appropriated." dollars, to be appropriated as the moneys arising specified. He said he should acquiesce in an equivalent, though he would prefer a gratuitous exemption.

con

The House adjourned before the debate was brougght to a close.

THURSDAY, December 23. THEODORE SEDGWICK, from Massachusetts, appeared, and took his seat.

The following message was received from the President of the United States:

UNITED STATES, December 23, 1790. Gentlemen of the Senate

and House of Representatives:

that it, should lie on the table for further conAfter some debate, Mr. MADISON proposed

sideration.

FRIDAY, December 24.

Messrs. FITZSIMONS, FOSTER, and SYLVESTER, were appointed a committee to prepare a bill to ascertain how far owners of ships and vessels shall be liable to the freighters of goods on board thereof.

MILITIA.

The House resumed the consideration of the report of the Committee of the whole on the bill for establishing a uniform militia, Mr. MaIt appearing, by the Report of the Secretary of the DISON's proposition in favor of persons consciGovernment Northwest of the Ohio, that there are entiously scrupulous of bearing arms being certain cases respecting grants of land within that under consideration. A majority of the speakterritory which require the interference of the Legis-ers appeared to be in favor of exemptions being lature of the United States, I have directed a copy of left to the several States. In support of this said Report, and the papers therein referred to, to opinion,

H. OF R.]

Public Lands.

[Dec. 27, 1790.

be

Mr. BOURN observed, that if the General Go-be laid and collected upon all distilled spirits of comvernment should take up the matter, and sub-mon proof, and in like proportion for all other distillject the Quakers to a penalty as an equivalent ed spirits which shall, after the for personal service, their situation would be rendered less eligible than it is at present-for, in several of the States, they are not only exempted from militia duty, but from all fines and penalties in lieu thereof. He instanced the States of New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut.

Another memorial from the society of Quakers on the Eastern shore of Maryland, against the sixteenth section of the bill, was presented by Mr. SMITH, member from that State, and

read.

A motion of Mr. CLYMER, to amend the motion of Mr. MADISON, after some discussion, was negatived; and the original motion being also put, was disagreed to; so that, as the bill now stands, the exemption of persons religiously scrupulous of bearing arms is to be provided for by the respective States.

day of imported into the United States. Also, that from and after the day of next, a duty of eleven cents per gallon be imposed upon all spirits of the first class of proof, distilled other foreign materials; also, a duty, in like proporwithin the United States, from sugar, molasses, or tion, on all other classes of proof.

first class of proof, distilled within any city, town, or Also, a duty of nine cents upon all spirits of the village, within the United States, from materials of the growth or production of the United States; also a duty in like proportion on all other classes of proof.

That for each still employed in distilling spirits in any other place than a city, town, or village, there to be collected and paid, a yearly sum of cents for every gallon, English wine-measure, of the capacity of each still, including its head.

After which the committee rose, and the

Chairman reported the resolutions, which were Mr. SMITH (S. C.) then renewed his propo-mittee of five members was appointed to pre read and agreed to by the House; and a comsition respecting independent companies, which, he informed the House, he had so modified as to avoid the objections before offered to it. It is to the following effect:

Whereas certain independent corps of artillery, infantry, and dragoons, now exist in the several States-It is hereby enacted, that nothing in this act shall be construed to the disbanding or incorporating said companies in the militia; they, at the same time, being liable to the performance of the military duties herein required.

It being understood that the bill should be recommitted to a select committee, it was voted that this proposition be referred, with the bill.

On motion of Mr. LIVERMORE, the ninth section of the bill was expunged. A motion by the same gentleman, to strike out the tenth and eleventh sections, was negatived.

pare and bring in a bill agreeable to said resolutions. The committee appointed are Messrs. SEDGWICK, TRUMBULL, LAWRENCE, WYNKOOP, and SMITH, Maryland.

The Committee of the whole was then discharged from further consideration of said re

port.

Mr. FITZSIMONS moved, that a committee be appointed to bring in a bill on the other parts of the report, for altering the mode of collecting longer time for collecting the same. This mothe duty on wines and teas, and to allow a tion was referred to the foregoing committee.

PUBLIC LANDS.

The House then went into Committee of the whole on the state of the Union, Mr. LIVERMORE in the chair. The report of the SecretaIt was then moved that the bill be recommit-ry of the Treasury on the establishment of land ted; which being put, passed in the affirmative. Messrs. WADSWORTH, GILES, and TUCKER, were appointed the committee.

MONDAY, December 27.

Mr. BURKE's motion respecting a bill for altering the time of the meeting of Congress was taken into consideration, and negatived.

Mr. FITZSIMONS, from the committee appointed for that purpose, reported a bill to ascertain how far the owners of ships or vessels shall be liable to the freighters. Read a first and second time, and committed.

PUBLIC CREDIT.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole on the Report of the Secretary of the Treasury, on a further provision for the establishment of the public credit; Mr. LIVERMORE in the chair.

The committee agreed to the following resolutions:

That an additional duty of eight cents per gallon

offices for the disposal of the vacant lands belonging to the United States was taken up,

when

Mr. BOUDINOT offered the following resolution:

Resolved, That it is the sense of the committee that a Land office be established at the seat of the General Government, under the direction of

missioners.

Com

Mr. SCOTT wished the House to take a general view of the business before they went into the particulars of the Secretary's report. Upon the whole, he was pleased with the plan drawn up by that officer; one part, however, he objected to that part of the report which provided for the distribution of the land. He did not approve of setting apart tracts for particular descriptions of purchasers. As an amendment, he offered seven propositions, which he wished, for the present, to lie on the table, and which he proposed to offer as substitutes to different parts of the Secretary's report, as they came before the House. His principal object was to

DEC. 27, 1790.]

Public Lands.

let the tracts which Congress proposed to sell, be indiscriminately located.

Mr. BOUDINOr thought the committee could not then enter into the minutia of the business. It was enough to fix the general principles, viz: Whether there shall be a General Land-officer and two subordinates? Whether they shall be under the direction of Commissioners? And whether certain tracts of land should be reserved by Congress for certain purposes? And then to appoint a committee to bring in a bill on those principles, and to take into consideration the minutiae of the business. Great changes, he observed, had taken place since the report was drawn up. The committee might consider what should be the greatest quantity fixed as a limit to the sales made by the General office, and what for the subordinate.

[H. OF R.

Mr. Scorr moved as a substitute, his second proposition, that such districts as shall be set apart for sale, shall include the actual settlemeuts, and be left to be indiscriminately located. He said it was improper to set aside different tracts for different modes of location-some in large tracts, others in small lots. He conceived it would be the interest of Government to let every one purchase where he pleased, and as much or as little as he chose. From experience, he knew that those parts were always settled with the most celerity that were not bound down to any of those restrictions. For his part, he could see no good argument in favor of them. He wished some of the gentlemen who approved of this mode would give him some reasons for preferring it. There could be no fear of individual settlers scattering and Mr. SHERMAN offered a resolution, that there losing themselves in the back woods; there was be a General Land-office established.-Agreed. a sufficient check to prevent it-the Indians Mr. BOUDINOT. That there be two subordi- would keep them compact much more effectunate offices, one in the Government to the north-ally than any regulations Congress could make. west, the other south of the Ohio.-Agreed.

Mr. BOUDINOT moved, that all sales made at the General Land-office shall be above acres; then all below that quantity would be made at the subordinate offices. It should also be determined whether Congress would fix the quantity, or leave it to the commissioners. It appeared to him a matter of importance.

Mr. ScorT moved that the blank be filled with one thousand.

Mr. WHITE moved five thousand. Mr. BOUDINOT thought the number of acres too large. Persons who wished to purchase so large a tract could afford, and would have no objection, to come to the seat of Government to make the purchase.

Mr. SEDGWICK observed, that it would be a great advantage to have the contract for large purchases made under the immediate eye of Government. The House, however, he thought, was not prepared to fill up the blank; he wished it left open.

If, after granting certain scattered tracts to individual settlers, a considerable tract, including these, was wanted, he could see no inconvenience in granting it, reserving to the former settlers their rights.

Mr. WILLIAMSON rose to give the gentleman last up one reason for opposing indiscriminate location. Hitherto, he owned, much mischief had not arisen from this mode of settlement; but now there were persons rich in securities and cash, ready to take up considerable quantities of land, which, if they were permitted to select here and there, would select every choice tract they could; and those who might not have the same means of purchasing immediately at command, could only obtain the indifferent parcels. Many, he knew, had it in contemplation to do this, if the opportunity offered. He instanced North Carolina as an example of the injurious tendency of this liberty; where many tracts are unsaleable owing to this circumstance. If these tracts were to be purchased by actual settlers, the case would be different; they would only be taken up by persons under Mr. BOUDINOT proposed that all smaller quan- the name of actual settlers. Such a practice tities be sold at the subordinate offices, to pre-would be an impediment to such companies of vent the confusion that selling the same quantity Europeans as might wish to settle among us. at the different offices might occasion.- Mr. Scorr said, he expected the gentleman Agreed. would have offered more solid objections to his Mr. SMITH (S. C.) wished it determined un-plan, and more forcible arguments in favor of der whose directions these offices should be; whether of one or three Commissioners, or of any officer already appointed. He thought one officer would be most eligible; there would be more responsibility and uniformity.

The motions for filling the blanks were withdrawn.

Mr. SHERMAN wished the determination of this particular delayed. His mind was not made up. The motion was delayed.

Mr. BOUDINOT proposed that no lands shall be sold previous to settling the Indian claims. -Agreed.

That part of the report was read, which sets apart certain lots for certain particular purposes, and directs the manner of locating them.

the other. Though the first settlers had the choice of the land, yet he conceived the remaining part would acquire a considerable additional value from the surrounding settlements. As for the European companies who might be tempted to settle among us, he did not contemplate it as an object so desirable. A body of French people settling in that way would preserve their language and manners two thousand years perhaps. This would not be for the true interest of the country; all its inhabitants should, by mutual intercourse, become assimilated, and no name be known but that of Ame

ricans.

Mr. LEE, from the committee appointed for Mr. WHITE proposed, that a man holding in which evidences of the debt of the United the purpose, reported a bill directing the mode only a certain proportion of uncultivated land States which may be lost or destroyed, shall be to the improved, should be called an actual set-renewed; which was twice read and committed.

Mr. SEDGWICK preferred the insertion of a sum below which the lands should not be sold. Mr. WILLIAMSON suggested the propriety of making a difference in the price to those who purchase large quantities, from the price to those who purchase small quantities.

The motion for striking out was lost. Mr. SEDGWICK then moved to amend the clause, by inserting "that the price per acre shall not be less than thirty cents."

[H. OF R.

cretionary power to determine the price with any persons whatsoever. It had been productive of mischievous consequences in the State of Georgia. He was for fixing a price, and the highest price-the best the lands would bear; when that is sold, if the residue will not bear the price established, it can then be reduced.

Mr. SCOTT objected to the motion. He stated several difficulties; the principle was, that foreigners would be deterred from adventuring, owing to the uncertainty in the price; for when they arrive in the country to settle, they must purchase, and they will then lie at the mercy of speculators.

Mr. LAWRENCE.-The people have great dependence on the Western territory as a fund to` extinguish their debt; it therefore becomes the duty of the Government to obtain the best price they can for it. The question is, whether we shall fix a price, or adopt the plan proposed by the gentleman from Massachusetts. He was in

Mr. STONE objected to the motion. He said the operation of it would be to leave it discre-favor of the latter, and said he doubted not it tionary with the Surveyors to fix the price of would be easy to make a discrimination in the the various tracts. This would be to constitute relative qualities of the lands. This difference a tribunal in a measure independent of the Go- in price may render it worth while for the vernment. He thought the policy of the Go- Commissioners to have the land of a particular vernment should be to fix on a price, which district explored. He replied to the objection shall be so reasonable, that persons may feel from the want of integrity in the Surveyors. every inducement to pay it before they take up Admitting the full force of the objection, it was the lands; for it has been found by experience, probable that the United States would gain by that when once a tract of distant country is it; at any rate, it would not lose; and it was taken possession of, you never can get any thing probable that, to avoid suspicion, if the Surmore than the settlers are willing to pay. He veyors should be interested in the tract surveyinsisted that it was impracticable to fix the rel-ed, they would give more than thirty cents. ative value of unlocated lands-it had been repeatedly tried without effect. He asked if any of the States had ever established various rates for their lands? He knew of none.

With respect to foreigners, after they arrive in the country, they then will be on the same footing with our own citizens. He adverted to the mode which had been adopted by New YorkMr. SEDGWICK answered the inquiry respect- they had sold lands in every way, at a certain ing the relative value of lands being ascertain-price, at auction, and are now selling them at ed in the several States. He said, that so far the discretion of Commissioners, at a rate not as his information extended, which respected below a certain sum. only the States of New York, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts, this had invariably been the case. Every man knows there is a most essential difference in the value of lands. Those on navigable rivers may be ten times as valuable as those on the top of a mountain. This every individual is so sensible of, that a difference in the price is constantly made. And why the Government should not make a difference, it is impossible to say; any man, by casting his eye upon a map, can at once determine that some part of the land is unspeakably more valuable than other parts. He was certain that vesting a discretionary power, in the disposal of the land, would be productive of the greatest advantage to the United States, and on this principle he could not conceive why the Surveyors should not determine the relative quality, that the United States may stand some chance of getting the value of this property.

Mr. LIVERMORE was in favor of Mr. SEDGWICK'S motion, and enlarged on the unreasonableness of fixing a particular price.

Mr. STONE objected to the mode of leaving the price unfixed, as it would involve a com plex system, subjecting the purchasers to great inconvenience, perplexity, and uncertainty. He reprobated the system adopted by New York, and asked the gentleman (Mr. LAWRENCE) whether New York had not been subjected to great loss and vexation in consequence of the plan they had pursued? He wished the system of New York should be fully under stood, in order that the United States may avoid it. He concluded by saying, that he was in favor of fixing a price, and supposed that the Western territory, sold at thirty cents per acre, would sink the whole of the national debt.

Mr. LAWRENCE replied to Mr. STONE. He said, that when the State of New York sold their lands at a fixed price, there had been com plaints on account of the best tracts being taken up. When they had sold them at auction, the value of the lands had been generally realized in proportion to the quality. With respect to the last mode adopted, the result was not yet

Mr. JACKSON was opposed to investing a dis-known.