Mr. BORN. The last two years that I worked at my trade I was employed by the Pennsylvania Railroad Co.

Chairman WALSH. I wish you would state, Mr. Born, what part you took, if any, in the strike of 1911 at Pitcairn.

Mr. BORN. Why, I was on the grievance committee.

Chairman WALSH. Of what?

Mr. BORN. Of the shopmen.

Chairman WALSH. How long were you employed by that company altogether? Mr. BORN. Well, five years; but I had left-was out of the company's employ for two years.

Chairman WALSH. And when this strike came on you were with the company, were you?

Mr. BORN. Yes, sir.

Chairman WALSH. Now, what was your record with the company?

Mr. BORN. Well, I guess it was good, because after I left they were after me to come back-that is, the foreman-to return there when I left the place that I was in; to go back. So it must have been good or otherwise they would not have asked for me to come back to the Pennsylvania.

Chairman WALSH. How did you come to finally sever your connection with the company?

Mr. BORN. I was discharged.

Chairman WALSH. For what reason?

Mr. BORN. For being a member of the union.

Chairman WALSH. Did you attempt to return to the employ of the company? Mr. BORN. Not after the strike.

Chairman WALSH. What was the cause of the strike in 1911?

Mr. BORN. Well, I was a member of the International Association of Machinists before I knew that the shop was being organized. I was only a member of the shop organization about two weeks before. The company seemed to think I was a member a longer time, but I was only a member two weeks when I was discharged. They had organized the shop long before I knew anything of it. The reason I was not asked to join the union-that is, the shop union-or that they did not let me know there was such a thing was on account of me being friendly with the superintendent of the plant and they thinking I might give away something said or done; but the cause of the organization was due to the "off and on" system that the company adopted. They had a new system there that when a man got through with a job he was to report to the clerk. If he was on good terms with the clerk he might get a job immediately when he reported it. If not, he would have to stand around and he would lose the time. They had the piecework system. Now, that was the cause of the organization of the men in the Pitcairn shops.

Chairman WALSH. Was there or was there not substantial unrest among the men on account of that?

Mr. BORN. Well, that is what started it; but later, when the company knew that they were being organized, the old hands were discharged-the old employees. Now, that is what we tried to work with the company, that they should reinstate the old employees. The strike would not have come off at the time if they had not discharged the old hands.

Chairman WALSH. How many of those had been discharged?

Mr. BORN. Quite a number; not only at Pitcairn but all along the line. I think it was done more to scare them from organizing.

Chairman WALSH. Could you approximate the number that was so discharged?

Mr. BORN. Well, I could not. I judge in the machine shops, the shop that I was employed in, there were in the neighborhood of-you see, at Pitcairn they employed about 5,000; that is, all classes, laborers, car men, blacksmiths, pattern makers; they worked in the cabinet shop, and different men working at different work.

Chairman WALSH. How were grievances adjusted between the employees and the management?

Mr. BORN. There didn't appear to be any adjustment at any time. That is what created the trouble. If they would have recognized them

Chairman WALSH. Was there any machinery for hearing the complaints of the men?

Mr. BORN. No; not to my knowledge.

Chairman WALSH. Was there or was there not any complaint about the wages?

Mr. BORN. Well, there is where it was; it was on this "off and on" system is what made the wages so small.

Chairman WALSH. Well, now, just sketch the trouble in that respect. How small were the wages, or how large-the earnings?

Mr. BORN. Well, if they worked through-had no trouble in getting their work-some of them made good money; that is, for not being mechanics. A man on the Pennsylvania at Pitcairn that was not a mechanic could make as high as a hundred dollars a month-and I thought that was good wages-proIvided he had the work.

Chairman WALSH. Was there any considerable portion of them that did not have the work that got the rate?

Mr. BORN. Oh, yes.

Chairman WALSH. Well, now, what proportion?

Mr. BORN. Well, just at that time, or for six months, in fact, from the time they adopted that up until the strike there were a great number of them made a very small wage.

Chairman WALSH. Well, what was the wage and about what did it net them?

Mr. BORN. The greatest part of it.

Chairman WALSH. How did it run, generally?

Mr. BORN. Some made less than a dollar a day; some made good wages. Now, with myself, I had no complaint with the Pennsylvania Railroad, personally they paid me good wages. I was a day rater. I was not on the "off and on system. They treated me good. I couldn't say anything myself, personally, but good for the Pennsylvania; but their employees as a whole were not treated right; and that is the reason I went with them and helped fight their battle. Chairman WALSH. Any complaint about the voluntary relief association? Mr. BORN. Yes, sir.

Chairman WALSH. What was that complaint?

Mr. BORN. Why, they were compelled to join the voluntary relief association. I don't call it "voluntary," because you were compelled to join the relief association. You were in the Pitcairn shop at the time. I don't know how about the others.

Chairman WALSH. Was there any objection to joining it?

Mr. BORN. Yes, sir.

Chairman WALSH. What was the objection?

Mr. BORN. Well, they did not care about joining it for the reason that they did not know whether they would stay with the Pennsylvania Railroad; there is where the biggest part of it was. Now, the company took that money out and the employees, so far as we understood, that 10 per cent of that money went for the pension fund. Now, we may have been wrong-I may have been wrongbut we used that as an argument, that 10 per cent of that money paid in went for the pension fund. Well, if a man did not stay there until he was 70 years of age, all the money he put in that relief he would lose. Now, that is the reason why so many objected to the relief. I for one objected to joining the relief, and I was compelled to join the relief. I was told so. Chairman WALSH. By whom? Mr. BORN. By the foreman. Chairman WALSH. What was the organizers?

attitude of the company toward labor

Mr. BORN. Why, it was not good. It showed that by the discharging of the men.

Chairman WALSH. That is what I was going to ask you. Did they discharge the men who joined?

Mr. BORN. Yes.

Chairman WALSH. Well, now, how many, and what were the circumstances connected with that?

Mr. BORN. Why, I venture-I believe there was one-third or over one-half had been discharged by the time the strike was called. Now, I was discharged February 27, 1907.

Chairman WALSH. You said you were discharged for joining the union. Why did you say that?

Mr. BORN. I was told if I would drop the union I could be held.

Chairman WALSH. By whom?

Mr. BORN. By my foreman.

Chairman WALSH. Who was that?

Mr. BORN. Mr. Steinburg.

Chairman WALSH. Were new men employed to take the places of these men discharged prior to the time of the strike?

Mr. BORN. No; not until the strike.

Chairman WALSH. Did seniority rights exist at any time while you were

there?

Mr. BORN. No, sir-well, they did up to that time.

Chairman WALSH. What attempt was made, if any, to establish contractual relations with the company?

Mr. BORN. You mean, what measures were used?
Chairman WALSH. Yes, sir.

Mr. BORN. Well, we went before-well, we had correspondence with the officials of the company, the superintendent, the general superintendent, and the manager, for to have a hearing, that we could come to a peaceable settlement; and we were heard by the general superintendent, the superintendent, and the general manager. They treated us courteously, and I couldn't ask for better treatment; and they consulted with us; but they believed they had a right to discharge men if industrial conditions so existed, and that they had a right to use their own judgment. Now, they wanted us to go back to work and settle it afterwards-wanted us not to strike; but it was out of the question. We could not; the men compelled the strike unless the old men were reinstated.

Chairman WALSH. And who actually called the strike?

Mr. BORN. The men did.

Chairman WALSH. By a vote?

Mr. BORN. By a vote.

Chairman WALSH. How many men?

Mr. BORN. Well, each organization-I guess there was in the neighborhood of 5,000 men brought on the strike-more than that, between 5,000 and 10,000. Chairman WALSH. How long were they out?

Mr. BORN. From the 1st day of May until the 15th day of June, I believe it was the 15th; I couldn't say positively the day they went out-they went back.

Chairman WALSH. What was the conduct of the strikers?

Mr. BORN. Good; could not be better.

Chairman WALSH. Any casualties there or disturbances?

Mr. BORN. There was trouble there the first day of the strike. There were detectives, and we thought they were the Pennsylvania detectives. Since I have been in here I have been informed they were Pinkerton detectives. They marched through the borough of Pitcairn-for what reason I don't know. I went before the council, the Pitcairn council, and asked them if they would not put on an extra police force and place men that were out on strike on the police force, as I believed that would keep better order than by putting strangers there; and the borough council agreed that they would, after I had explained ways of keeping order, and they immediately put on a bunch of policemen that were connected with the strike. There was no trouble in Pitcairn until the company-of course, the shopmen had pickets. They would try to prevent men from going over to work by speaking to them, and the company brought in a bunch of detectives and they came over to the borough to escort men to work, and that day there came nearly being a riot, but they kept it down. The extra police kept the detectives over on their side and from that day on there was no more trouble.

Chairman WALSH. You say there came near being a riot. Was there anybody

hurt?

Mr. BORN. No, sir; nobody hurt; no blows struck; no.

Chairman WALSH. Or missiles thrown?

Mr. BORN. No; but there would have been if there had not been restraint. Chairman WALSH. NOW, were there police or not brought into the city?

Mr. BORN. No; not in the borough. The company tried to get the Cossacks there after that date.

Commissioner AISHTON. Who did?

Mr. BORN. The company did-tried to persuade the sheriffs to bring the State constabulary on the scene.

Chairman WALSH. Were the State constabulary brought in?

Mr. BORN. No, sir; the sheriffs took hold of it after that and appointed deputies that were out on the strike.

Chairman WALSH. That is workingmen that were on strike?

Mr. BORN. Workingmen that were on strike.

Chairman WALSH. And were there any police brought in by the companyany uniformed police from outside places?

Mr. BORN. Not in the borough.

Chairman WALSH. Not in the borough?

Mr. BORN. No; but there were in other boroughs where we could not get the council's help to put on men who were connected with the strike.

Chairman WALSH. You mean there was no blow struck, during the strike, at all?

Mr. BORN. Only one case that was at Wall, and that was controlled mostly by the company-a borough called Wall.

Chairman WALSH. How far is that from Pitcairn?

Mr. BORN. Right across the railroad yards.

Chairman WALSH. Well, then, Pitcairn itself was absolutely without trouble. Mr. BORN. Without trouble. Well, there was trouble one night with a fight. Chairman WALSH. Did anyone get hurt?

Mr. BORN. One man got hurt by a detective-one of the company detectives or Pinkerton detectives. They are the ones that tried to agitate trouble. Chairman WALSH. Well, were there any arrests made growing out of this strike?

Mr. BORN. In Wilmerding there were two or three.

Chairman WALSH. Were the persons convicted?

Mr. BORN. No, sir.

Chairman WALSH. Or tried?

Mr. BORN. Yes, sir.

Chairman WALSH. Before a jury?

Mr. BORN. No; before the burgess's court.

Chairman WALSH. Now, briefly, a little of the aftermath. What became of these men that were discharged?

Mr. BORN. From the Pennsylvania Railroad?

Chairman WALSH. Yes.

Mr. BORN. Why, scattered to various parts of the United States.

Chairman WALSH. How many of them failed to get back?

Mr. BORN. Well, about one-third. I interceded for two or three, tried to get them back. I went to Mr. O'Donnell, and he turned me down, would not recognize them. One man in particular; he was on the committee-two men were on the committee-and they were both hurt by the company, and they did not have any part in calling the men out on the strike. They handled themselves properly during the strike, only they were on the committee. They tried to adjust grievances. And I could not see why the company could not accept those two men. They asked me to intercede for them, and I did, but they would not take them, and Mr. O'Donnell told me that we caused the Pennsylvania Railroad Co. to spend over a million dollars, and they did not think that it was right to take men back who were the cause of the railroad company being at such expense. Chairman WALSH. Was there any change in the status of the men that were returned to work, either in wages or conditions, or anything of that sort? Mr. BORN. I don't think so; I have not learned of such.

Chairman WALSH. When were you appointed postmaster at Wilmerding? Mr. BORN. Last September.

Chairman WALSH. You said you were a member of the machinists' union? Mr. BORN. Yes.

Commissioner AISHTON. And then spoke about an organization of the shop crafts. That was a federation, was it?

Mr. BORN. It was a federation; but I still hold my membership with the International Association of Machinists, and still do-am still a member.

Commissioner AISHTON. And your connection with the matter of meeting with the Pennsylvania was acting as representative of the men of the shop crafts? Mr. BORN. Yes, sir.

Commissioner AISHTON. And the involved laborers?

Mr. BORN. Yes, sir.

Commissioner AISHTON. And helpers?

Mr. BORN. Yes, sir.

Commissioner AISHTON. And all the classes of employees?

Mr. BORN. Yes, sir; and on that committee there was one representative from each craft.

Chairman WALSH. That is all, thank you.

Mr. Grimm, please.

TESTIMONY OF MR. HERBERT L. GRIMM.

Chairman WALSH. Please state your name.

Mr. GRIMM. Herbert L. Grimm.

Chairman WALSH. What is your business?

Mr. GRIMM. State editor of the North American, Philadelphia.
Chairman WALSH. Of the Philadelphia North American?

Mr. GRIMM. Yes.

Chairman WALSH. Please state your newspaper experience, running back from this time.

Mr. GRIMM. Well, in 1913 I was city editor-you mean my entire experience? Chairman WALSH. Yes; please.

Mr. GRIMM. Last fall I was acting managing editor of the Gettysburg Star and Sentinel, and prior to that time city editor of the Patriot for a year at Harrisburg. Before that I was New Jersey editor of the North American for two years.

Chairman WALSH. Did you act as representative of the Patriot at the meeting called by the Pennsylvania Railroad Co. and attended by the representatives of four Harrisburg papers, members of the chamber of commerce, and the Pennsylvania Railroad officials?

Mr. GRIMM. Yes; three Harrisburg papers.

Chairman WALSH. I wish you would briefly state how that call was made, and what took place at the meeting.

Mr. GRIMM. The call was made for one of the owners of the Patriot, I think. The Patriot is owned by the McCormicks, Vance C. and H. P. McCormick. And Mr. McCormick was out on the primary campaign; he was then running for governor of Pennsylvania; and I was asked to represent the Patriot. The meeting was called for the purpose, as I understand it, of making the chamber of commerce members and the newspapers acquainted with the situation with regard to the strike from the railroad point of view.

I do not recall the date of the conference, but it was in the afternoon. There were present about 10 members of the chamber of commerce, whose names I do not recall, but one was Mr. Musser, the president, and for the railroad Mr. Creighton, general manager of the middle division of the Pennsylvania Railroad; Mr. McCaleb, superintendent of the Philadelphia division; and two of Mr. McCaleb's assistants, Mr. Dennehew and Mr. Sweeney; and Mr. Charles Bergner, local corporation counsel of the Pennsylvania Railroad Co., and a couple of others, whose names I do not recall. It was a closed meeting, and nothing was ever printed about it.

Mr. Creighton was the first one, I think, to make an address. The meeting was held in the office of Mr. McCaleb, superintendent of the Philadelphia division, in the station at Harrisburg.

The impression I gained at the time, soon after Mr. Creighton began to talk, was that the meeting was called for the primary object of winning over the members of the chamber of commerce and using them as a club to whip the newspapers, who were standing with the strikers, into line for the Pennsylvania Railroad Co. One of the parts of Mr. Creighton's address, I recall, he said he was at Atlantic City a couple of weeks before that, I believe, and that he was walking out on the board walk and picked up his Patriot and read across the top of the column "Terrible labor conditions in Harrisburg," and he said that was giving the city a black eye and was creating the general feeling that Harrisburg was a very poor town to work in, and so forth. Some of the chamber of commerce members would put in once in a while with, "That is right; that is right." And Mr. Bergner made an address along the same line. Chairman WALSH. Who is he?

Mr. GRIMM. Bergner was local counsel of the Pennsylvania road. He accused the Patriot of deliberate lying.

Chairman WALSH. Had it?

Mr. GRIMM. No; I do not think so; I told him it had not.

Chairman WALSH. Go ahead.

Mr. GRIMM. Mr. McCaleb made an address along the same line Mr. Creighton did. And then addresses were made by a couple of members of the chamber of commerce, who agreed that the news ought not to be used in the local papers because it would create a feeling of unrest generally. That is about all. Chairman WALSH. Did you have anything to say?

Mr. GRIMM. I only tried to show Mr. Bergner that the Patriot had not lied. There were representatives of the other newspapers there, and they all made