have as fully before them, as they otherwise might, the public interest; that is, we will assume they are absolutely incorruptible and intend to do all that is right.

Commissioner GARRETSON. Certainly.

Dr. GOODNOW. But they are biased as a result of having been engaged in the defense of the private rights of their clients; their bias is rather in favor of private rights than in favor of the public interests, and it is only as judges have been a considerable period upon the bench as they get these questions involving the public interest before them, that they are emancipated from this one-sided, this one angle of vision. That is the way I look at it; just as a private opinion.

Commissioner GARRETSON. That is what I am asking for, because it was reasonably supposed you had a very accurate knowledge of law and a mind developed along that certain line. Can any man follow a pursuit to a mature age without being influenced in a degree by that pursuit itself?

Dr. GOODNOW. I suppose that would be always inevitable.
Commissioner GARRETSON. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman WALSH. I have a couple of questions which I have been asked to put to you. This is one [reads]:

"If a defendant acquitted by a military court and again arrested in the criminal court on the same charge, failed to plead former jeopardy and only entered a plea of not guilty and offered the evidence of former acquittal as res adjudicata, what instruction would or should be given to the jury?""

An attorney has asked me to ask you that question.

Dr. GOODNOW. As I understand the proceedings in a court-martial, it would have no effect at all; it is another system of court.

Chairman WALSH. And if there is a military law and court, the practice of that court is determined by the code or rules of practice and the decisions respecting it?

Dr. GOODNOW. Yes.

Chairman WALSH. And the question of former jeopardy has to be pleaded separately and, heard separately?

Dr. GOODNOW. Yes.

Chairman WALSH. And in most of the States that plea has to be decided before that trial takes place?

Dr. GOODNow. I don't know about that.

Chairman WALSH. I don't either.

One other question, and this is an economic question [reads]:

"Can you conceive of a condition in which the economic or industrial organizations should become so dominating, industry become organized to such a high degree, that it would be desirable to have persons for judges who were not learned in the law?"

Dr. GOODNOW. That method is adopted, for instance, in France; that is, all these questions between employer and employee come up before a special tribunal, which consists of judges not chosen from among those learned in the law, but chosen from among employees and employers.

Chairman WALSH. Have you an opinion on the subject?

Dr. GOODNOW. I understand that works pretty well in France.

Chairman WALSH. I have been asked to ask this question, also [reads]: "Do you not fear that to raise the educational requirements for the bar would, by placing the legal and judicial profession beyond the reach of any but the rich, make for a more decided bias in the administration of justice?" Dr. GOODNOW. Well, of course, that is a question; it would undoubtedly make it more difficult for the poor classes of people.

Chairman WALSH. More expensive?

Dr. GOODNow. Yes; it would make it more difficult for them to be admitted to the bar, but, of course, you have to offset against that the advantages which might be derived from their education, and at the present time I think we must admit, as I have said, there is no attempt made whatever in our qualifications for entrance to the bar to secure men who have any knowledge of economic questions.

Chairman WALSH. That is all, thank you, Doctor, you will be excused permanently.

The commission will now stand adjourned until 2 o'clock this afternoon. (Thereupon, an adjournment was taken at 12.30 o'clock May 13, 1915, until 2 o'clock p. m.)

38819°-S. Doc. 415, 64-1-vol 11- -35

AFTERNOON SESSION-2 P. M.

Chairman WALSH. Mr. Cyphers.

TESTIMONY OF MR. HARRY A. CYPHERS.

Chairman WALSH. I am sorry to have had to keep you this long, and another thing is we will have to be quite brief, because we have been pretty fully over those particular questions, but some other little information that we desired to secure from you, though the subject was pretty well covered the other day. What is your name, please?

Mr. CYPHERS. Harry A. Cyphers.

Chairman WALSH. And where do you reside?

Mr. CYPHERS. South Bethlehem.

Chairman WALSH. And your profession?

Mr. CYPHERS. Lawyer.

Chairman WALSH. How long have you lived in South Bethlehem?

Mr. CYPHERS. Twenty-three years.

Chairman WALSH. Are you familiar with the conditions that prevail in South Bethlehem with particular reference to the steel industry, prior to February 4, 1910?

Mr. CYPHERS. Fairly so; as well as could be with the observation and association on the street.

Chairman WALSH. Briefly, what caused the strike?

Mr. CYPHERS. The real cause of the strike, I think, was the illtreatment or unjust adjustment of the differences that arose between the various employees and their underbosses.

Chairman WALSH. And the main grievances were what?

Mr. CYPHERS. The main grievances were the fact that they got no fair adjustment of any differences that arose. For instance, if a man would complain about some work that he had done, that he didn't get paid for, why it would be waived aside without consideration and brushed aside, and any complaint never reached any further than such dismissal.

Chairman WALSH. But there was a definite feeling of unrest among the men at the time?

Mr. CYPHERS. All over the whole city.

Chairman WALSH. How long were those men on strike prior to the arrival of the constabulary?

Mr. CYPHERS. From February 4 to the 25th of February.

Chairman WALSH. Under that condition what was the condition of South Bethlehem with reference to peace and order?

Mr. CYPHERS. About like an ordinary Sunday morning-quiet.

Chairman WALSH. Was it perfectly safe for citizens and officials of the steel company and others to move about the city of South Bethlehem?

Mr. CYPHERS. Yes, sir; without question.

Chairman WALSH. When did the constabulary arrive?

Mr. CYPHERS. I think it was Friday morning the 25th.

Chairman WALSH. Please describe briefly what was the condition following their arrival.

Mr. CYPHERS. The first excitement arose as soon as it was learned the constabulary had come to town. Everybody wanted to see them, and necessarily the excitement began to increase until they came out onto the street and attempted to drive the spectators off the street, which created discord at once. There was some 25 of them, and they marched up through the middle of the street, and every man that said anything about them, why they made a dive for him. Of course, the people ran wherever they could, and some arrests were made, and they took them down to the old Bethlehem Steel Company's office in the building and locked them up over Sunday. No hearings-disregarded everybody that was in authority, police officers, mayor, and burgesses, and all were disregarded; and they simply went on and locked up people without any consideration, whether they had done anything, or what the cases were; nobody could reach them.

Chairman WALSH. Were you engaged as attorney to represent any persons placed under arrest?

Mr. CYPHERS. I was on a Saturday, I think, my recollection is.
Chairman WALSH. Upon what date was Mr. Zambo killed?

Mr. CYPHERS. On Saturday morning.

Chairman WALSH. What date?

Mr. CYPHERS. The 26th.

Chairman WALSH. The 26th of February?

Mr. CYPHERS. I think it was that; I am not sure whether it was the 25th or the 26th. but I think it was the 26th.

Chairman WALSH. Where were the hearings held for those arrested by the State police?

Mr. CYPHERS. The first lot, amounting to some 30-odd cases, were heard in Mr. Schwab's office, in the office of the Bethlehem Steel Co.'s building. Chairman WALSH. Was Mr. Schwab present?

Mr. CYPHERS. Yes, sir.

Chairman WALSH. Anybody else?

Mr. CYPHERS. Four or five, or six or eight

Chairman WALSH (interrupting). I mean, anyone else of the company there? Mr. CYPHERS. Yes; all the officials.

Chairman WALSH. Who was there representing the men on strike?

Mr. CYPHERS. I was.

Chairman WALSH. Anyone else?

Mr. CYPHERS. No.

Chairman WALSH. Were the trials public? desired?

Could anyone come in that

Mr. CYPHERS. No; they didn't have room for them all. By the time they got the State constabulary in and the justice and the district attorney and the steel company officials, there wasn't much room left. We were crowded

Chairman WALSH. Could the men on strike that wanted to get in get into the

room?

Mr. CYPHERS. Nobody attempted to come in. They were held clear in the middle of the building, and the entrance to it was barred by the officials, and you had to go through the hall and

Chairman WALSH. Is there a requirement in the State constitution of Pennsylvania that a man charged with crime shall have a speedy and public trial? Mr. CYPHERS. I understand so.

Chairman WALSH. Have you the original notes taken by you at the time with reference to the charges and the amount of bail required?

Mr. CYPHERS. Yes, sir; I have. I made a memorandum of each case at the time, and I looked the other day and found it. The charges were mostly throwing stones; the bail required in all of the cases was $1,000, except one or two. During the first two or three cases that were called and were testified to by the State constabulary

Commissioner GARRETSON. Was that $1.000 in each individual case?

Mr. CYPHERS. Yes, sir. For instance, the first person I have on my list was Serminski, charged with throwing stones and rioting. The bail required was $1,000.

Chairman WALSH. How many men were arrested on charges of that sort? Mr. CYPHERS. My recollection is that there were some 26 or 28 in the office when I first went down to the steel company's office to see them.

Chairman WALSH. Could you please offer that into our record here, and we will copy it and return the original?

Mr. CYPHERS. You don't need to return them. I have no use for them. They are merely old files.

(See Cyphers Exhibit at end of this subject.)

Chairman WALSH. Did you offer your services to assist in prosecution of the men accused of killing Zambo?

Mr. CYPHERS. I did, and it was refused.

Chairman WALSH. Who had the prosecuting in all of these cases?

Mr. CYPHERS. The district attorney.

Chairman WALSH. Was there special counsel on either side?

Mr. CYPHERS. Yes, sir; one of the principal attorneys representing some of the cases for the Commonwealth, and I raised the question at the time that if they were permitted private counsel for the Commonwealth in a case in which the strikers were arrested, I wanted to appear for the Commonwealth when it came to the trial of the State constabulary.

Chairman WALSH. What was the reply to that?

Mr. CYPHERS. The district attorney told me all right, and I raised the question before the court, and the court said there was no occasion to appear for the Commonwealth, and that I could appear for the defendants, and I did, and at the trial of them for two days, I came in the court on the morning of the third day, and I told the court I had changed my plea, or would change it, and

submit a plea of non vult, if he would tell me they would be disposed of, and the court agreed to it.

Chairman WALSH. What were they sentenced to?

Mr. CYPHERS. From six to nine months.

Chairman WALSH. What was that plea?

Mr. CYPHERS. Non vult; in other words, don't care to contest the issue. The Zambo case was called for trial, or the trooper, rather, who did the shooting, and when it was called for trial at the next term of court I think I was told by the district attorney he had discussed the matter with the court and to see if he would consent to my appearing for the Commonwealth. They called some one else to testify and would not do it.

Chairman WALSH. Did you defend the strikers for unlawful arrest?

Mr. CYPHERS. I did.

Chairman WALSH. HOW many?

Mr. CYPHERS. Four.

Chairman WALSH. HOW were the suits disposed of?

Mr. CYPHERS. They were; in the last week one of the boys came to me one day and asked me whether it made any difference to me if he dropped it, and I said, “No”; and a day or two afterwards there came to my office by mail three letters, which I have in my hand, from the other three directing me to drop the case. They read, addressed to me, "Owing to the fact we do not think the cases now before the court against Wilson and Robinson are of any consequence, we withdraw from the case." The first one is signed Stephen

Ganzer.

Chairman WALSH. Who was he?

Mr. CYPHERS. The plaintiff in the case, and the other was John Setzler and Joseph Belt.

Chairman WALSH. Did the plaintiffs remain in the city?

Mr. CYPHERS. Yes, sir; they got their jobs back at the steel company; that was what ended the suits I learned afterwards.

Chairman WALSH. What were the amounts of the suits that were filed? Mr. CYPHERS. Five thousand dollars, $10,000, and various amounts. The cases grew out of picketing, and they were discharged before the squire.

Chairman WALSH. Are there many injuries of employees, or were there prior to that time, and were there many injuries to employees in the Bethlehem Steel Co.?

Mr. CYPHERS. Yes, sir; we see the ambulance go three or four or five times a day, and sometimes six or eight, to and from the hospital; it passes my office. Chairman WALSH. As a usual thing are the persons injured recompensed for their injury?

Mr. CYPHERS. We never hear anything about it.

Chairman WALSH. Are there any suits filed against the Bethlehem Steel Co. for injuries?

Mr. CYPHERS. Not to any amount. In the 18 years I have practiced law I have had two. Both were settled before trial; one for a thousand dollars for a man that fell over a mold into a pit, and the other for $600, where a man shoved a train over him and bumped his head off. I don't recall which was for $600 and which for a thousand, but one was $600 and the other a thousand dollars.

Chairman WALSH. What is your idea; why are not more suits brought; you say the ambulance goes three or four times a day?

Mr. CYPHERS. The reason for it is very simple; the steel company is the only industry in the town, and whenever anyone is hurt the members of the family-the brother and sisters, aunts and uncles-work for the steel company, and if some of them wanted to bring suit the influence is enough to quash them. That is the way it is done; it is a mere question of influence.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. I understand you to say there was no rioting before the constabulary was brought in?

Mr. CYPHERS. There was no rioting. It was quiet, generally speaking, as it could be on a Sunday morning. Anyone could go where they wished. There had been a couple of parades, but no rioting, except I heard of a little incident taking place, a little difficulty down at the steel company's office about their pay, and I didn't see that at all. The police officers were in charge, and it might have been a little rough at the time, but it was nothing serious. Chairman WALSH. On whose request were they brought there?

Mr. CYPHERS. The State constabulary? On the information that came to me it was through the sheriff. The sheriff testified in the suit before the court,

when we tried those people that were arrested; he testified that he brought the State troops to town, and the only evidence of violence that he could testify to was that some boy had thrown a stone and broken a window right in the steel company's office, and they had taken the boy into the office, and they refused to prosecute him. That was his testimony before the court.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Did the city officers-the mayor or chief of policemake any request?

Mr. CYPHERS. I think not. They refused to is my recollection of the fact. Commissioner O'CONNELL. They refused to indorse the request for the State constabulary?

Mr. CYPHERS. There was, I think, the sheriff and the burgess that were in conference with the steel company officials for some little time, about the time it happened. I was not present and don't know what it was; all I get is from the talk on the street.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Were there any arrests made by the city police prior to the State constabulary coming there?

Mr. CYPHERS. Not that I know of.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Not out of the ordinary, that might occur at any

time?

Mr. CYPHERS. No, sir.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Immediately upon the arrival of the State constabulary there was some trouble?

Mr. CYPHERS. That was what started it up. Before they left the train at the station-they had not gone two blocks before they picked up a man that was half drunk; he was a painter, and had nothing to do with the steel works, and they took him to the market house and locked him up. The town then became very much excited, and everybody was in fever heat for a while until they got their bearings.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. The State constabulary was housed in the buildings of the steel company?

Mr. CYPHERS. The horses were in the steel company's stable, and the men were in the basement of the general offices on Third Street.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. Have you seen anything of the published statement, the financial statement of the Bethlehem Steel Co., showing that there had been compensation in any way for the keeping of the soldiers and policemen and horses?

Mr. CYPHERS. I have not.

Commissioner O'CONNELL. What was the general impression in Bethlehemthat the steel company furnished housing and food and places for their horses? Mr. CYPHERS. That is the general idea, but we don't know for certain. They furnished everything; everything was free and plenty around there. In the sheriff's office-I was there several times-I was free to go anywhere in the office and about the works. I had on Sunday morning, when this excitement was on, I went down to the works, down to see the men in the building. Commissioner O'CONNELL. What was the impression of the better-not the impression of the men on strike, but the citizens generally, the business men, as to the conduct of the State constabulary while at Bethlehem?

Mr. CYPHERS. Well, answering that, the business men, it was drawn into an issue between the business interests on the one end and the employees on the other before it had gotten very far, and so the business interests had all lined up with the steel company's side of it as against the employees on the other. That was the turn that the situation took, so that before the State constabulary came the impression of all business interests was with the men, and after they came and the excitement grew more intense it went the other way; and to illustrate how well the people were reposed and how peaceful, when the man Zambo was buried-the day he was buried-one of the priests who had charge of taking care of the interests of the striking employees went down to the steel company's office and told them if they would keep the constabulary in the steel company's fence and not let them out on the street that he would take care of the crowd. There were 5,000 men marched to that funeral and not a word from anybody.

Chairman WALSH. Were they kept in the inclosure?

Mr. CYPHERS. Yes.

Chairman WALSH. I think that was testified to by some one that an understanding was reached that they would not be out that day.

Mr. CYPHERS. Yes.