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Mr. SOLIS. Yes; he shipped much less than the others. That is why, I suppose, he could not do much business.

Mr. FISHER. But also if he did less business he would ship less than the others, wouldn't he?

Mr. SOLIS. Yes.

Mr. MAYER. Will you ask him when Escalante went out of business? Mr. FISHER. You say Escalante went out of business in 1907? Mr. SOLIS. That is my recollection; I am not sure. Mr. WEXLER. Did he go out of business or fail? Mr. SOLIS. Well, I don't know if he failed or not. know; that house was liquidated.

Really I don't

Mr. FISHER. Did you ever do any business with Hanson & Orth? Mr. SOLIS. No, never.

Mr. FISHER. Do you know whether the persons who sold to them had any difficulty shipping on the railroads?

Mr. ŠOLIS. I don't know. I suppose they had some understanding. I don't know anything about their business.

Mr. FISHER. Now, Hanson & Orth did less business than Montes or Peirce, did they not?

Mr. SOLIS. They were unknown to me.

Mr. FISHER. But you know their business was much less than that of either Peirce or Montes?

Mr. SOLIS. I really never heard a word about them before.

Mr. SPENCER. He says they were unknown to him.

Mr. FISHER. I understand, but they did a substantial business in hemp in Yucatan, did they not?

Mr. SOLIS. I don't know.

Mr. FISHER. You do not know whether they were doing any business in hemp there?

Mr. SPENCER. He says he never heard of them.

Mr. FISHER. We will show what they did.

Mr. SOLIS. If they did business we have not heard it.

Mr. FISHER. I see. And there was a concern in Kansas City, that appeared before the committee here, that makes a specialty of buying for the State penitentiaries in this country, where the prisoners make twine. Do you know that concern?

Mr. SOLIS. No. sir.

Mr. FISHER. You never heard of them either?

Mr. SPENCER. The Mid-State Commission Co., was it not?

Mr. FISHER. You never heard of that concern?

Mr. SOLIS. No, sir. We farmers were not able to make an investigation.

Mr. FISHER. Mr. Solis, has the Government compelled the planters in Yucatan to make forced loans to the Government?

Mr. SOLIS. That is entirely a question of the

Mr. SPENCER. Politics?

Mr. FISHER. I am not getting into the politics of it; just the facts. Mr. SPENCER. What bearing has that got?

Mr. FISHER. It may have a very important bearing, showing whether it was voluntary or not. Let us get at it directly. They not only compelled the planters to make forced loans, but the planters had to pay those loans in hemp in many instances, did they not? The CHAIRMAN. Whom are you speaking about now?

Mr. FISHER. The military government of Yucatan that is controlling this Reguladora Comision.

Mr. SOLIS. I do not know whether the military government of Yucatan has done something of that kind. I do not know whether it was forced or voluntary. That was long before Alvarado.

The CHAIRMAN. Before the present governor, you mean?

Mr. SOLIS. Yes, sir; it was by another governor.

Mr. FISHER. Who was the governor?

Mr. SOLIS. I think it was Avila.

Mr. FISHER. When was he governor?

Mr. SOLIS. He was governor in 1915, I think-the beginning. It might be the end of 1914.

The CHAIRMAN. How long was he governor?

Mr. SOLIS. A little time; three or four or five months, I think. I am not very strong in the matter of politics.

Mr. FISHER. Did you have to make a loan to the Government there?

Mr. SOLIS. I think we made it. We were of the farmers who made a loan to the Government, but we were not forced. Nobody threatened us.

Mr. FISHER. Did you pay it in hemp or in money?

Mr. SOLIS. I think we paid it in money; I am not sure. be we paid part in money and another part in hemp.

It might

Mr. ORTH. Mr. Solis, when the article from Agricultor was read, did you hear the name of the company, Hanson & Orth?

Mr. SOLIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. ORTH. Are you familiar with the business it has done since 1911 in exporting from Yucatan?

Mr. SOLIS. No; I know it existed.

Mr. ORTH. Did you know who its agents were in New York?

Mr. SOLIS. No.

Mr. ORTH. When you came to New York about a year and a half ago and saw-Mr. Felipe Canton, was it?

Mr. SOLIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. ORTH (Continuing). With reference to selling sisal to him, did you inquire whether Mr. Canton had ever done any business in New York in sisal hemp before or not?

Mr. SOLIS. No; he told me he had done a little, but it was very difficult.

Mr. ORTH. You do not recall the names of the other firms in New

York to whom you went?

Mr. SOLIS. No.

Mr. ORTH. Were you in Merida in October, 1915?

Mr. SOLIS. Well, what did you want me to say?

Mr. ORTH. Were you in Merida in October, 1915?

Mr. SOLIS. Well, it is the fourth time I am asked the same question. Mr. ORTH. I do not mean to annoy you by any question.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the question?

Mr. ORTH. I am asking Mr. Solis if he was in Merida on October 10,

1915.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any reason why

Mr. SOLIS. I told him three or four times I made three trips to Yucatan. It is possible I have been there.

Mr. ORTH. I will put the question another way. Were you in IMPORTATION OF SISAL AND MANILA HEMP. a meeting of the planters was held and an association formed by them called the Asociacion de Productores de I heard that the asociacion de productores was

Merida at a time when

Henequen ?
Mr. SOLIS. No.

to be formed.

Mr. ORTH. Would you mind telling the committee what you heard Mr. SOLIS. Well, I did not hear much. form a kind of cooperative association.

about it?

I knew they were trying to

Mr. ORTH. Did Ġen. Alvarado approve of that attempt? He was in the Reguladora like the other gentlemen, but I do not Mr. SOLIS. Well, I don't know.

know. I am out of it.

asociacion de productores?

My brother knows about that.

Mr. ОRTH. Can you say what became of that man who formed the Mr. SOLIS. I do not know; not a word.

that it was frequently difficult or impossible to sell hemp in the Mr. ORTH. You have, as I understood it, stated in your testimony

Merida market

on account of Montes and Peirce being out of the

market as buyers. Is that correct?

Mr. ORTH. On account of Montes and Peirce refusing to buy. Mr. SOLIS. They would not refuse to buy. They would pay a price, the price offered by the Reguladora.

Mr. SOLIS. When the Reguladora was formed; not before. Mr. ORTH. Before the Reguladora was formed did you have any difficulty selling your hemp to Montes or Peirce?

Mr. SOLIS. We had no difficulty;

to them.

sity,

[Laughter.]

Mr. SOLIS. The price that they fixed.

our bill of lading to the exporter.

Merida?

we had the necessity of selling

Are there

Mr. ORTH. When you went to them to sell your hemp under necesMr. ORTH. Are there any brokers in Merida who conduct sales of I were you aware of what the Merida market price was? hemp for the account of the planters and the exporters? any brokers in Merida whose business it is to negotiate sales of hemp from the planters like yourself to Montes or Peirce? Mr. SOLIS. No; we never heard of them. We always delivered Mr. ORTH. And you assert positively that there are no brokers in Mr. SOLIS. There may be; I don't know. I never employed any. yourself, for instance. Did you invariably sell your hemp to Montes, Mr. ORTH. Did the planters as a rule deliver their hemp-take or did you sometimes sell it to Montes and sometimes to Peirce? Mr. ORTH. When you had any hemp to sell did you go both to Montes and to Peirce to find out what prices they would give you? Mr. SOLIS. Well, sometimes, knowing they would fix the same Mr. ORTH. You knew they would fix the same price? Well, we had the practical experience, because we tried

Mr. ŠOLIS. Often to Montes; very little to Peirce.

price.

Mr. SOLIS.

many times.

Mr. MAYER. Is Mr. Orth counsel for the International Harvester Co. or for anybody but his own firm?

Mr. FISHER. I understand he is representing the Reguladora. [Laughter.]

The CHAIRMAN. He requested permission to come here to represent himself, which the chairman of the committee told him he could do. Go ahead, Mr. Orth.

Mr. ORTH. Mr. Solis, have there not at times in the past been many mortgages on plantations in Yucatan?

Mr. SOLIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. ORTH. Are there more mortgages now at the present time than there were, say, five years ago?

Mr. SOLIS. I think not, in a general way. Of course, I can not say, but in a general way I think many farmers paid their mortgages on account of the inflation of the currency.

Mr. ORTH. Do not the majority of the planters in Yucatan live in what we here call "good style"? In other words, do they spend large sums annually for living expenses?

Mr. SOLIS. No; they are not brokers in New York City; they are only farmers.

Mr. ORTH. I said "planters." I meant to ask you-putting it more simply, perhaps are there not many wealthy planters in Yucatan?

Mr. SOLIS. NO; I do not know of any that might be considered wealthy. There are some that can live a little decently, but I do not know of any of great wealth.

Mr. ORTH. Do you know of any planters in Yucatan whom you would call wealthy?

Mr. SOLIS. Not wealthy; no.

Mr. ORTH. In regard to the present taxes in Yucatan, Mr. Solis, did I understand you to say that the export tax is 1 cent a pound? Mr. SOLIS. Yes.

Mr. ORTH. Gold?

Mr. SOLIS. I think it is a cent a kilo.

Mr. ОRTH. A cent a kilo, gold?

Mr. SOLIS. Mexican gold.

Mr. ORTH. That is half a cent American gold?

Mr. SOLIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. ORTH. Did I understand you to say the tax was deducted from the 4 cents a pound which the Comision Reguladora is now paying for your hemp?

Mr. SOLIS. NO; I did not say that. I don't know--we receive 4

cents.

Mr. ORTH. Is it not true that the Comision Reguladora takes your hemp at 4 cents and pays the Federal export tax, and that you receive the 4 cents?

Mr. ОRTH. We receive the 4 cents.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Town, won't you kindly give us a little information? We are doing this, gentlemen, because Mr. Town is a public official and wants to get home.

28201-VOL 1-16-24

STATEMENT OF MR. HENRY TOWN, WARDEN OF THE WISCONSIN STATE PENITENTIARY, WAUPUN, WIS.

The CHAIRMAN. Please state your name and your official position in the State of Wisconsin?

Mr. Town. Henry Town.

The CHAIRMAN. And what is your position?

Mr. Town. I am warden of the Wisconsin State Prison.

The CHAIRMAN. I am going to ask Senator Gronna to question you.

Senator GRONNA. Will you kindly state to the committee the amount of sisal hemp used by your institution during the year? Mr. Town. About 8,000 bales.

Senator GRONNA. About 8,000 bales. That is what?

Mr. Town. That is, of Mexican sisal.

Senator GRONNA. And do you use some Manila hemp?
Mr. Town. Yes, sir.

Senator GRONNA. How much, about?

Mr. Town. Well, the Manila and the East African and the Java would take up about 4,000 bales more.

Senator GRONNA. So that the total capacity, then, of your plant is about

Mr. Town (interposing). About 12,000 bales.

Senator GRONNA. About 12,000 bales?

Mr. Town. Yes, sir.

Senator GRONNA. And will you also state to the committee, or can you give the committee the average price of sisal per year?

Mr. Town. I have got all of it right here in my pocket that has ever been bought at the institution.

Mr. MAYER. And from whom bought?

Mr. Town. And from whom bought?

Senator GRONNA. I wish you would give the figures to the committee for such years as you have, so that we may incorporate them into the record.

Mr. Town. We are new in the business, have not been at it very long. We are small. Do you want it for this year?

Mr. SPENCER. Suppose you start at the very beginning.

Senator GRONNA. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Start at the beginning. It would be more logical, and bring it down.

Mr. Town. All right. September, 1912, 807 bales at 5.70, from Hanson & Orth; 21st, 193 bales, 5.70, from Hanson & Orth; 500 bales on August 12, at 5.70, from Montes; 500 bales on November 9, at 6.90, from Hanson & Orth.

Mr. MAYER. What date was that?

Mr. Town. November 9, 1912.

Mr. MAYER. 6.90.

Mr. Town. November 11, 500, bales at 7.55, from Montes; November 25, 1,000 bales from Hanson & Orth, at 7.40; December 12, 1,250 bales from Montes, at 7.62; May 28, 1913, 1,000 bales, at 7.25, from Hanson & Orth; June 10, 1,000 bales, at. 6.84, from Montes;

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