CIVIL LIST.

On the motion of Mr. Wharton, there was ordered to be laid before the House an account of the money paid out of the Civil List, not being part of the ordinary expenditure thereof.

The paper was immediately brought up, and ordered to lie on the table.

MR. PALMER'S CLAIMS.

Colonel Palmer said, that the claims of Mr. Palmer had been so repeatedly discussed, that he should not enter into the merits of the question, but merely justify himself with the House for renewing the same Bill they had formerly sup ported. After its failure in a former session, from the dissent of the Peers, the claim was referred, by an address of the House, to a Court of Law for decision; which being found to be impracticable, Mr. Palmer next obtained an Address to the Regent, praying that his Royal Highness would advance the arrears due to Mr. Palmer. His Royal Highness was pleased to answer the Address by an assurance of his anxiety to comply with the wishes of the House, when the means were provided by Parliament. The only mode, therefore, of effecting the object was by the present Bill. By the original agreement Mr. Palmer was to have two and a half per cent. on the increased Post-office Revenue arising from his plan, and could this agreement have been tried at law, it was the opinion of the Chief Justice of the Court it was referred to, and also of another Judge on that Bench, lately a Member of the House (Sir Vicary Gibbs), that Mr. Palmer would have obtained a verdict. When the evidence on which the opinions of these learned Judges were founded was referred to a Committee of the House, they also considered the original agreement to be substantiated, but recommended, under all circumstances, that Mr. Palmer should be paid his salary and per centage according to a subsequent appointment. On the Report being debated in the House, an honourable Member proposed that the salary should be given up, to which he (Colonel Palmer) acceded, and the question was carried for the per centage only. The account presented to the House of the arrears due to Mr. Palmer, amounting to 69,000l. was next referred to a private Committee, who reduced it to 54, 0007. and the present Bill was framed on this reduced estimate, so that instead of two and a half, according to

the original contract, Mr. Palmer's profit was reduced to less than one per cent.; and as he would not for the remainder of his life receive more than the hundredth part of that revenue, which (to use the words of the Commissioners of Public Inquiry) his activity, ingenuity, and zeal had cre ated, he was convinced that neither Parliament nor the country would think him too well rewarded for his services. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had been anxious that the Bill should have been postponed to another day. The more, however, he had attended to the nature of the present claim, the more he was confirmed in the opinion that there was no foundation for it. The simple question was, if Mr. Palmer had not by his own misconduct forfeited those rights which he held for his own advantage and that of the public? When he had been found impeding those regulations which he ought in duty to have promoted, and was found holding underband correspondence, for the sake of defeating the arrangements which he ought to have promoted, had he not thereby forfeited his claims? If he had a claim of right, that claim might be enforced by law. If he had a claim of equity or compassion, why not ask it as such? He did not wish to take up the time of the House on a night when another question of so great importance stood for discussion.

Sir T. Turton was of opinion, that to the parties concerned, and also to the honour of the House, no question could be of greater importance. The claim now sought to be made effectual had always been carried by great majorities in that House, and he hoped the House would once more endeavour to prevent their repeated votes being unavailing.

Mr. Long denied that the bargain between Mr. Palmer and the country was as stated. The allowance to be made to him was not for this plan alone, but also for official duties which he was to perform in the Post-office, and which having ceased to perform, his allowance ceased also. He resisted the present measure, because it was put on the footing of a specific agreement. If Mr. Palmer had come with a statement of merits, and argued that he was entitled to something more than he had received, he, for one, would not have objected to any reasonable recompence; but he. could not agree to the present Bill, grounded as it was on an alledged specific agreement.

Sir Thomas Plomer hoped that the Bill might be postponed till another day.

Mr. Palmer understood it had been agreed that the discussion should take place this day, and on that understanding he had given notice to the supporters of the Bill.

Sir T. Plomer contended that there never was a case less entitled to public favour than the present. Mr. Palmer' had finally accepted of office on condition of performing the duties of it. The emoluments of that office were to be his only remuneration; and even supposing that he had been improperly removed from that office, the utmost he could ask, or was entitled to, was, that he should be paid the emoluments. of that office during the time he had been deprived of it.

Mr. Jekyll said his honourable and learned friend talked as if the agreement in question had never been before the House, whereas, on the contrary, it had repeatedly been decided in favour of Mr. Palmer by great majorities. The most considerable law opinions of the day too had been in favour of the claim-when he mentioned those of Lord Erskine, of the present Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas, and of Mr. Adam, the House would agree that the claim of right was supported by no inconsiderable

names.

Colonel Bastard thought the House was called on to support its own vote.

Sir Mark Wood was of the same opinion.

Mr. Rose begged gentlemen to recollect that the House had come to different votes on this subject. He had no objection, however, if Mr. Palmer had not been already sufficiently rewarded, that he should still receive a reasonable compensation. But he objected to the present claim, which was urged as a matter of right.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said he should take the sense of the House on the measure in some future stage of the Bill.

Colonel Palmer begged that the sense of the House might be taken now.

Mr. Fuller said, not only the sense of the House, but of the country, was with the present claim. The sense of the House was all around the honourable gentleman at this moment.

The Bill was then read a second time without a division, and ordered to be committed to-morrow.

WAYS AND MEANS.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved that the Report of the Committee of Ways and Means, relative to the Budget, should be now taken into further consideration, stating that any observations or objections might be made with equal propriety, after the Bills were brought in. Sir T Turton said a few words,

Mr. Brougham observed, that his objections to the duty on leather, which it was proposed to double, and on the pro position for increasing the tax on servants, and horses engaged in husbandry, had not been removed.

The Resolutions were then read and agreed to, and Bills were ordered to be brought in accordingly.

CATHOLIC CLAIMS.

Mr. Canning then rose and observed, that when he reflected on the extent and magnitude of the subject which be bad undertaken that night to press on the attention of the House, and which he was bold enough to hope might, through the intervention of that House, be also recom mended to the consideration of Government-when the House too reflected on the discussions which this important subject had undergone within these walls and in other places when they reflected on the anxiety which must naturally be felt on this subject in other places; they would probably think that he must necessarily feel himself called on to trespass on their patience for a considerable length of time. He was happy, however, that he should be enabled to disappoint their expectations in this respect, as in the view which he took of the case, as it presented itself to his mind, it rested on a very few principles. If he stood there as a party man, he was aware he might feel himself in embarrassing circumstances, but that however not being the case, and it being his wish to avoid every thing that could have a tendency to provoke animosity, he hoped, in the view which he should take of the question, he should meet with the general concurrence of the House. What he heard this day in common with others, would not have the effect of inducing him to change the mode in which he had intended to treat the question, being of opinion that, in the present state of the empire, the conceding their claims to the Catholics formed the only means of tranquillizing the

feelings of the country. From this view he had resolved to keep every consideration of an inflammatory nature, and notwithstanding the intelligence they had received that day, it was his wish and expectation still to be enabled to do so. He hoped the House would be inclined to view this as a great State question. He was aware that some gentlemen thought it surrounded with innumerable difficulties, but for his own part he saw no reason in these difficulties, whether real or imaginary, for refusing to give the subject a fair consideration. He was, indeed, of opinion that the time had at length arrived when the subject might be viewed exclu sively upon its own merits, unconnected with temporary events or local considerations, and stripped of all those prejudices and partial affections which had for a long period rendered the hope of unanimity respecting it fruitless and unattainable. He apprehended that, without adopting or incurring the suspicion of being disposed to adopt any of those wild doctrines of positive and inalienable right which for the last twenty years had been so generally afloat, there were a few great and leading principles in which all would be willing to concur. The first of these was, that as a general rule (subject undoubtedly to such exceptions as arose out of causes which were beyond controul) that all men, citizens of the same state and inhabitants of the same soil, were 'entitled to the same privileges (Hear, hear !) On those, then, who might resist the particular application of this principle, rested the onus of shewing just grounds for maintaining the exception. But if this was their duty at all times, it was surely incumbent upon them in a peculiar degree, when the period at which they made their opposition was a time when the greatest force which perhaps was ever in the history of the world arrayed against a nation was threatening our safety; a force under the direction of a conqueror who, in addition to all his other means of annoyance, knew how to comprehend in the strictest union in furtherance of his designs, all the varieties of language, nation and religion (Hear!) He was ready to admit that sufficient grounds might be laid in political events and circumstances, of dissent from the proposition which he had submitted, and all he contended for was, that the burden of proof and justification of this dissent lay upon those who advanced the objection. The next principle on which too he confidently anticipated a general coincidence of sentiment, was, that where had existed by chance a great, inter