membered well, for nothing was more repug- of money; or if this reference was made in nant to his feelings than what he then assented the case of the one, so also was it fair to make to. But what was the question now? His the same reference in the case of the other. R. H. had submitted to a severe retrenchment The proposition now was to restore the Prince of his establishment for eight years (a severity to what he before enjoyed, viz. the sum of of retrenchment, indeed, which was rarely 125,000l.; but, after this resolution is agreed exercised in private life); and now it was to, when is his R. H. to resume the style and asked, whether it was fit to relieve him magnificence which his rank requires him to from that retrenchment for the four years to maintain? His R. H. says it is not in his power come? And how was that to be done? The to resume them immediately; with the moclaims of his R. H. to the arrears due from tives that induce him to defer it the Rt. Hon. the dutchy of Cornwall, did not seem to be Gent. professes to be acquainted, but he does expressly admitted by the Rt. Hon. Gent. not choose to explain them. Among these (Mr. Addington), yet that Rt. Hon. Gent. motives may be the payment of foreign debts did seem to admit that his R. H. was entitled and other claims-claims which honour and to call for an account of those arrears. If principle acknowledge to be valid: but these, then the Prince had a claim to call for that it seems, are not to be considered in the light account, and that it appeared to be an account of strict claims; his R. H. however, may of a large sum, surely Parliament should in- think and feel otherwise. Neither, it apstitute an inquiry how that sum had been appears, should he feel for those who lost ten propriated, or why it should not be employed towards the liquidation of his R. H.'s debt? But the Rt. Hon. Gent. says, Of what avail would it be to institute such an inquiry? for even should the claims of his R. H. be substantiated, where was the royal property upon which to execute judgment? This again was a subject for parliamentary inquiry. Indeed, for his part, he never could reflect upon the subject, without feeling surprise and regret at the destitute and contemptible state in which the Royal Family were placed in this respect -(A cry of Hear! hear!)-and here the respectful manner in which his R. H. had conducted himself towards his Majesty should not be forgotten or pass unnoticed. But it seems that the measure proposed this day was not to be considered in the light of a compro. mise. The Rt. Hon. Gent. only says, that he is glad his R. H. consents to wave his claims, because the pursuing of them would place his R. H. not only in an awkward situation with respect to his Majesty, but also with regard to the public. How this should be it was not easy to discover. But in lieu of his claims, it seems his R. H. is to be placed on the same footing in which he stood previous to the arrangement of 1795. Some 'Gentlemen might think, indeed, that 125,000l. was a large income, even in such a situation as that of his R. H. He must beg leave to be of a contrary opinion. The House should not look to the different value of money at dif. ferent times, when the revenue of the Crown was considered, and the increase which it might be proper to make in the civil list, and lose sight altogether of the same consideration when it applied to the affairs of his R. H. the Prince of Wales. Indeed, it seemed to be adverted to on all occasions, unless when it regarded him, to whose situation, however, it was most peculiarly applicable. He, for one, was of opinion that a fixed sum should be granted to the Prince and to his Majesty for The demands of the civil list; and that it should not be examined and reviewed every year, with a reference to the different value

per cent. on the debentures: their loss was
imputable to their own mismanagement; for
the Commissioners did not take off ten per
cent. of their value; for they gave the credi-
tors the option of debentures of 100l. bearing
an interest of 31. per cent. or debentures
of 90. bearing an interest of 51 per cent.
The Rt. Hon. Gent. says these debentures
may have been at a discount at the time; but
that was on account of the state of public
affairs, and there was a great probability that
after a time they would have borne a pre-
mium-that might very well be. There was
a wide difference between a guinea and a de-
benture; and it is the value of any thing
at the particular time that is to be considered
as its true value. The creditors, it may be
true, were not forced to deduct ten per cent.;
but the terms held out to them were such as
to induce them to take 9ol. debentures, and
that even while the debentures were at a dis-
count. He was not prepared to say that all
those who lost ten per cent. in the debentures
had claims upon his R. H.; but he, and not
Parliament, was the best judge of the matter.
But the Rt. Hon. Gent. says his R. H. can
have contracted no legal claims since the year
1795. The debts alluded to might not be
what are called strictly legal, but honour
might look upon them as fair claims. There
again his R. H. and not the House, was the
fittest person to judge. Under whatsoever
aspect these claims might be viewed, they
must be such in the mind of his R. H. as to
prevent him from immediately resuming his
wonted establishment. To his own prudence
and economy it surely might now be left to
distinguish what were his legal, what his pro
misable debts, and to judge of the time when
it might be convenient to him to appear again
in that state with which, from his rank and
situation, he is expected to be attended. He
should not be condemned to do at forty what
he had done at the age of twenty-to enter
upon an establishment to which his income
was inadequate. The wisdom and liberality

of Parliament should guard him against such | that situation of splendour and dignity which difficulties; from what they have lately wit- he had, with such honour to himself, so long nessed, they should be induced to forget the consented to lay aside. He could not, howpast. It was evident that his R. H. had of ever, help stating, that if any arrangement late redeemed his character by the most pru- was to be made for this purpose, it should be dential regard to pecuniary affairs, and by a one perfectly consistent with that high sense system of economy which it is scarcely natu- of honour, and that powerful love of justice, ral to expect in such a situation. What before by which every part of the conduct of his was reluctantly, might now be joyfully, per- R. H. was distinguished. It was not fair nor formed, and the House should no longer he- honourable that his R. H. by not having his sitate in hastening the moment when his R. H. claims settled to arrears in the duchy of might be restored to that state of splendour Cornwall, to a much larger amount than and magnificence, of which the circumstances would be sufficient to relieve him from every of his birth and expectations should never be incumbrance, should be placed in the humidisrobed. liating situation of a debtor of the public, instead of appearing, as he really was, their creditor to a large amount. His Lordship contented himself with throwing out these hints in this stage of the business, reserving the power of delivering his sentiments at length when the subject came to be discussed in a specific form.

Mr. FULLER was of opinion that it was degrading his R. H. into the abject condition of a bankrupt, to permit his creditors to sustain a loss on their claims of 10 per cent.

Mr. BANKES contended, that the question that had been stirred on the present occasion should not be agitated without bringing it to some final decision. An attention to the claims of his R. H. by some was regarded as a matter of favour, by others as a matter of right. The House, indeed, did not know whether the claim had been preferred or not, and it might be wise in them not to come to a decision upon a matter on which they were not competent to decide; at least such a question was not now before them, and it would not be fair to debar his R. H. from a petition of right by the present motion, if he possessed such a right-neither would it be fair in his R. H. to make any such compromise in his claim. In this view he disliked the tendency of the resolution, and felt inclined to vote against it.

The question was now loudly called for, and the resolution was put and agreed to without a division.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Friday, February 25.—(See Minutes, p. 340.) [ESTABLISHMENT OF THE PRINCE OF WALES.]-Lord PELHAM called the attention of their Lordships to the consideration of his Majesty's most gracious message relative to the establishment of his R. H. the Prince of Wales. After a very few prefatory observations, his Lordship concluding by moving an address to his Majesty, the purport of which was to assure his Majesty that their Lordships would most heartily concur in any measures, the object of which was to promote the comfort, or to ensure the dignity of so distinguished a branch of his Royal

House.

The Earl of CARLISLE made a few remarks expressive of his readiness to concur in any proposition calculated to restore his R. H. to

Earl MOIRA assured their Lordships, in the name of his R. H. of his perfect readiness cheerfully to acquiesce in any arrangement which Parliament in its wisdom might adopt. On the subject of his R. H.'s claims, he declined at present offering any decisive opinion, more especially when he considered that the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack was, from circumstances not unknown to their Lordships, prevented from stating his sentiments on this subject. After expressing his cordial approbation of any measures by which the situation of his R. H. might be im proved and his feelings gratified, he finished by reserving a more detailed statement of his sentiments till a direct measure was offered for their Lordships' consideration.

The question was then put on the motion for the address, and carried nemine dissentiente.

[FINANCE.]-Lord AUCKLAND, adverting to some observations which he had made on a situation of the country, stated, that he had former evening on the subject of the financial thought it his duty to examine what he had then held forth to their Lordships with consi derable care, and the result of his examination had been, that what he then adduced was strictly correct. In consequence of what had fallen from a Noble Lord opposite (Lord Grenville), who was apparently disposed to doubt the accuracy of his statement, he was anxious that the matter should undergo a full and fair discussion. To have this subject brought fairly under their Lordships' consideration, he was therefore desirous that the documents by which his statements were to be substantiated should be laid on the table, and it was with the view of moving for their production that he now solicited their Lordships' attention. He did not wish that the discussion should be in any degree precipi

tated, but he imagined, that about the middle of next week he might be able to bring the subject to a fair issue, and he should then move that the paper which he was now about to mention should be printed for their Lordships' use. The Noble Lord, after this explanation, sat down with moving for "An "account of the permanent taxes and annual "grants for three years, ending the 5th of January 1783;"-" An account of the du"ties on bonded sugars;" and "An account "of the duties on malt and beer during the "same period."

A short explanation here took place betwixt Earl Moira, the Duke of Norfolk, and Lord Auckland.

moved for, there was nothing by which their
Lordships might be enabled to compare the
public receipts with the public expenditure.
But if the discussion was intended to be con-
ducted in a satisfactory manner, it was essen-
tial that they should be put in possession of
every document by which a satisfactory opi-
nion might be obtained. He would therefore
suggest to the Noble Lord, while he moved
for documents to exhibit a view of the amount
of the national receipts, not to overlook those
documents which presented a statement of
the national expenditure, without which it
was impossible to draw any conclusion on the
subject.-In consequence of some private ex-
planation betwixt the Noble Lord and Lord
Auckland, his Lordship, in addition to his
three former motions, moved for "An account
"of the various charges on the consolidated
fund, during the same three years to which,
"the former accounts referred."
The motions were then successively put
from the woolsack, and carried.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Wednesday, Mar. 2.-(See Minutes, p. 341.)

[IRISH REVENUE.]-Mr. CORRY moved, that the House should resolve itself into a committee upon the Irish revenue acts, and that the several accounts which had been presented should be referred to the said committee.—Ordered.

The House then resolved itself into a com, mittee, Mr. ALEXANDER in the Chair.

Lord GRENVILLE expressed his high satisfaction at the honourable and candid mode of proceeding which the Noble Lord had adopted" on the present occasion. It afforded him extreme satisfaction, that an opportunity was to be afforded of entering into a full and fair investigation of the financial state of the country; a subject at all times of the highest importance, but deriving new interest from the circumstances in which the country was placed. Nothing, his Lordship observed, could be more gratifying to his feelings, than that the statement of the Noble Lord respecting the financial resources of the country should be realized in all their extent. But he could not help observing that he had considerable doubts of the accuracy of that statement. The permanent charges on the consolidated fund had been stated at twenty-five millions, and the expenditure of the country at twenty-four. This, however, was by nearly four millions inferior to what he considered the real expenditure, even under the existence of a peace establishment, which made a difference to this amount betwixt the statement of the Noble Lord, and the real amount of the expenditure. He was happy that the matter was to be brought to an issue, for it was not a matter of light importance. The real resources of the country ought to be ascertained on clear and undeniable principles, and it was not fit that it should be left to vague speculation to decide what exertions we might be able to make in any emergency which might occur. The time which, the Noble Lord had mentioned he thought was hardly adequate for that full consideration and inquiry which would be necessary to prepare their Lordships for fairly and advantageously entering on the discussion. Instead of proposing the discussion at the time that the motion was made for printing the papers, he thought it would be much more agreeable to parliamentary order that the papers should first be printed, and that a subsequent day should be appointed for taking them into consideration. There was also another point to which he begged leave to turn their Lordships' consideration. In the papers which the Noble Lord had

Mr. CORRY said, that having stated to the House upon a former occasion the subject matter which was now under the consideration of the committee, it would not be necessary for him to occupy much of the time or attention of the committee, by going very minutely into the subject. The object of the motion with which he should now trouble the committee, was to renew the grants of the revenue of Ireland, which were heretofore an- . nual grants, which were so while the Parlia ment of Ireland sat, and which had continued to be so since the Union. It was his intention to move, that those duties which had hitherto subsisted should be continued. He had at different periods given notice, that he meant to propose to move, that these duties should be granted permanently, that is to say, without limitation, instead of granting them annually; and he should therefore now move, to continue them without any period of limitation. The reason why he proposed to make this alteration, and depart from the usual mode, was this; viz. for the purpose of providing a permanent fund to meet the permanent charges of Ireland; such as the in terest of the debt, the provision for the sink-, ing fund, and also several grants under acts of Parliament, from the commencement of his

Majesty's reign to the present time. These their extent and population, were entitled to were all charges to which the consolidated rank among the first towns, in that class to fund was liable, without any annual grants. which they belonged, because the persons livThe case was different with regard to the ing in these towns paid more for their licenses particular services of each year; for them it than those who resided in smaller ones. With was necessary to come to Parliament for pro- regard to the proposal made for repealing cervision every year, as in this country. But tain duties, he wished to state that his object with regard to the national debt of Ireland, was, to put all the duties into one act, in it had never yet been permanently provided order that merchants might have before them, for, though, upon the propriety of making in one view, all the duties which they had to such a permanent provision, he was sure there pay. The whole of the duties he should could not be two opinions in that House. If therefore propose to re-enact in one act of the committee should concur with him upon Parliament, with some very trifling alterations this occasion, then the interest of the national which he did not think it then necessary to debt, and other permanent charges in Ireland, occupy the time of the committee with dewould, as in England, have a permanent pro- tailing at length. There was some difference vision. The other grants for which he pro- between the book of rates in England and Ircposed to make this kind of provision were land; some articles appeared in the one which also in their nature permanent. With regard were not in the other, and sometimes the to the duties which he now proposed to con- same articles went under different denominatinue, they consisted of duties upon imports, tions in the two countries. He had endeaupon exports, bounties, drawbacks upon the voured to assimilate them as much as possible re-exportation of foreign commodities, certain to each other, because this difference might duties upon tonnage, together with all the be productive of great inconvenience; for ininland dutics of every description. They were stance, if accounts were called for from the generally the same as had subsisted since the custom-houses of the two countries with reUnion, and since the last Parliament of Ire- spect to some articles, the accounts, for the land: he said generally, because there were reason he had given, would not agree. This some small differences, but not of a nature inconvenience was not merely of a temporary sufficiently important to render it necessary nature; for the committee would recollect, for him to go into detail upon the subject: that at the end of twenty years, by the combut if the committee, or any Gentleman, pact of Union, a new view was to be taken wished to have any more detailed information of the respective wealth and abilities for conupon the subject, he would give it with the tribution of the two countries; it was theregreatest satisfaction. In some cases in these fore a matter of the greatest importance that duties, where there were fractions of a penny, the accounts of imports and exports should or of a farthing, they had been made up to be as accurately kept as possible; and for this the integer, but the difference was very trifling purpose an uniformity of denomination was indeed. In the case also of licenses granted absolutely necessary. Another object which to persons to carry on certain trades, in some he had endeavoured to accomplish was, to reinstances the duty of the license was raised; duce the duties, which in some instances were but he hoped it had been done with due con- rated duties, and in others ad valorem duties, sideration of the nature of the trade, and of to one general rated duty. This would be a its capability to afford it; and he had every very great convenience to merchants, for whose reason to believe that they would not in any accommodation he proposed this regulation. instance be found oppressive. With respect to drawbacks, to bounties, and to inland duties, they remained the same. He took this opportunity of stating, that with regard to the duties on home-made spirits, certain notions had gone abroad, and discussions had taken place; but he wished distinctly to say, that there was nothing in these resolutions which at all touched the subjects that had been so under discussion. He was sure that many Gentlemen who represented the other part of the united kingdoin perfectly comprehended what he alluded to, and he was therefore anxious to make their minds easy, as well as those of their constituents, by declaring that the subject was not touched in the present resolutions; neither would it be brought forward without full notice being given. Mr. Corry proceeded to notice some other slight alterations which he proposed to make, such as placing two or three towns which, from

After some conversation between Col. Vereker, Mr. Corry, Mr. Wickham, and Mr. Lee,

Colonel BAGWELL said, it was certainly a question of considerable importance, whether certain duties should be appropriated for certain purposes. Undoubtedly the best security ought to be given to the creditors of the national debt, but he thought it necessary that the House should have further information with regard to the different duties and taxes which they were called upon to vote permanently. In the last session, the duties were voted all together, and it was now proposed at once to make them all permanent. He was by no means inclined to give any opposition to the measure, or to oppose any of the duties, but he really thought, that upon a question of so much magnitude some further time should be given for consideration, in order

that they might know what they were to vote. | Ireland, and to injure the national credit; Some of the duties which it was proposed to and in order to prevent those persons from continue were considered in Ireland as war throwing off their shoulders their share of taxes, and that they were consequently to the general burden, a clause was introduced, cease on the termination of the war. Such, which enacted that persons should pay the for instance, was the duty on windows; and duty according to the number of windows there were some others, which, in his opinion, which their houses contained at the time required examination before they were voted when the tax was laid on. This regulation permanently. He hoped, therefore, that the was certainly a war regulation, and of course Rt. Hon. Gent. would not press the resolutions expired with the war. at present, but that he would postpone them, at least, for a few days.