LORD LIMERICK differed from the Noble Earl | consisting of 800 men, which he had the honour (Moira) in some things, and from the illuftrious to command, was deficient 200 from its operation. Duke who spoke third in the debate. What,To this measure he had another objection; the though troops are sent, or even if it will be so, men to be raised were all infantry. Now, he forced to the Eaft or Weft-Indies, or elsewhere, thought cavalry the most efficient force that could they have before them those rewards which never be opposed to the enemy in such a country as fail to animate the truly generous breast. They England. He would also suggest the propriety of have honour, laurels, and the approbation of their augmenting the horse artillery. It was a force too country they are enrolled for the service like obviously useful to be neglected by the Governfreemen, and not like the slaves of a neighbour- ment. He concluded with recommending, that ing country, who are compelled to quit their the men should be taken out in districts, and be homes, their wives, their children, their fathers accustomed to shoot at marks on Sundays, so as and mothers, in obedience to an arbitrary and to be prepared when there should be real danger tyrannical mandate. He was astonished to hear and actual necessity for their exertion. Above a Noble Earl (Carnarvon) declare that he would all, it was the spirit of Englishmen, and nothing resist the system, (these were the words, for he but this that could carry them through the diffihad taken them down); he stated, that every culties in which they were involved; but let that thing was wrong, that improper selection of offi- be called forth, and Europe perhaps would be incers were made, that taxes were too oppressive, dependent, at least Britain must be free. that property was actually invaded; but he hoped, that his feelings had hurried him too far, and that his principles did not correspond with his expressions, particularly when in a prophetic ftrain, he heard him declare, that this system would not be tolerated. Such opinions and wishes could only lead to the defeat of all our plans for securing our independence and rights, and furnish to the inveterate foe the sureft means of succeeding in his desperate enterprise. As to the mode of raising the men, he thought it excellent in every point of view; but more especially, as the men were not reftricted to serve in their respective counties, or countries the only difficulty he saw was to get the clothes on the recruit, for when once he was dressed in a red, blue, or grey coat, he feared no danger; the man who would before dread to cross a brook, would then stem the torrent without dismay; give him facings and a cockade in his hat, then he flies away to glory.

DUKE OF RICHMOND felt as sensibly as any noble lord in the House the importance of this crisis, and the danger to which the country was exposed. He was aware that every thing we held moft dear and sacred would be at issue in the conteft. The independence and liberty of Great Britain were menaced with destruction by an enemy who had hitherto been but too successful. Every resource therefore, every energy should be called forth in defence of those rights, which it is our pride to inherit from our illustrious ancestors, and which, if we ftill possess English hearts, we will transmit to our pofterity, pure and unsullied. How far it was safe or politic to engage in contitental alliances, he would not now discuss; it muft depend on circumftances: but he had no hesitation to observe generally, that such connexions were always useful when the real intereft of this country was consulted. But deprived of these connexions, the 'country could do little to injure or materially affect the enemy on the Continent. The third ballot comes now, amounting to 40,000 men, that is, more than double the number proposed in the firft inftance; this he really felt a ftrong measure, and would be considered as such by the nation. He apprehended also, that it would have the effect of damping the spirit of the people, without which, at this critical juucture, it would be absolutely impossible to accomplish any thing. He could speak with certainty from his own knowledge of the baneful effects that mult inevitably flow from it. A regiment

LORD FITZWILLIAM could not help lamenting that the different plans proposed for raising the Supplementary Militia, and the additional force now to be called out, must materially obftru&t the recruiting of the regular army. Indeed it was im practicable that those different plans could be carried into effect at the same time, as they naturally obftructed each others progress. It was therefore better to suspend the progress of the one until the other was completed.

LORD GRENVILLE said, that he could not agree to the motion, unless it had been accompanied with the observations by which it was introduced by the noble Secretary. He could not therefore conceive that there was any thing irregular in them. As to the measure itself, no time should be loft in putting it into execution. For twelve months paft France had not ceased to pursue her insults and aggressions, and a quarter of a year had elapsed since the message was brought down, ftating the necessity of resenting those aggres sions. The very armaments which were then said to be preparing in the ports of Holland and France, were supposed to have in view the invasion of this country. That apprehension was entertained so far back as the month of March, yet we were now far advanced in the month of June without having matured any plan for repelling the meditated attack; and that plan, how was it to be executed? By ballot; a mode that must necessarily obstruct the progress of recruiting the army. Where then was the activity and energy of ministers? On the contrary, was not the danger that first threatened the country augmented tenfold by their supineness or indecision? On the loss of Hanover the noble lord then expatiated in the same ftrain as the noble Earl (Moira), and contended that the possession of that country made an inconceivable addition to the incredible means of annoyance with which the enemy were already provided. Indeed if the proper course had been early pursued in the month of March, the enemy would not have been able to possess themselves of Hanover, and other places which they are now known to occupy. If the treaty of Amiens had not cut us off from all continental connexion, the conduct which ministers have since observed, must have had that effect. As to the measure now proposed, whatever might be its defects, it should be immediately put into execution; for any thing was better than the state of disarma

ment and unpreparedness in which the country was now left. He did not look upon it as a compulsory measure; and even if it was, he should not disapprove of it under the present circumstances of the country; for those who are protected are bound to defend. Common defence is the first condition of society itself, and every individual is called upon to contribute to it. This was the immediate principle of all government; a principle recognised by the British conftitution, and which might easily be traced back to its for mation. If the adoption of the measure now proposed should have the effect of rendering ministers unpopular, he was ready to bear his part of that unpopularity; for the extraordinary circumftances of the country fully juftified government in resorting to extraordinary means of defence. The force that was thus to be raised should be applicable both to offensive and defensive operations. A defensive war did not deserve the name of war; no, not even that of defence.

and secondly, for enabling his Majesty to employ such a force for offensive operations as may lead to a more vigorous prosecution of the war. I do not think, that it will be necessary for me to em→ ploy much argument to prove that, at such a conjuncture as the present, it is the bounden duty of Parliament to make such a provision for the national security as the circumftances in which the country is placed appear to require. In provi ding for this security it is necessary to take into consideration the actual state of our present means of preparation, and the means of offence which now exift in the hands of the enemy. Looking then to this object, I believe that no gent, will be disposed to deny that a very considerable addition ought to be made to our present military establishment. In saying this, I beg it to be understood, that I allude to the times in which it is our lot to live, to the new and unprecedented circumstances in which the country is placed, to the extraordinary character and conduct of that person who is the sole depository of the power, the resources, the population of the French republic. In other times, and under other circumstances, adverting to common difficulties and common dangers inciden tal to a state of war, I have no difficulty in decla ring, that our army on its present footing, or as it will stand in a very short period, and with a fleet commanding the sovereignty of the sea, we should be entitled to hold in complete contempt any threats of invasion. When I say this, I mean to apply it not to Great Britain alone, but to ireland, and to all the dependencies of the British Empire. But in adverting to the present times and the present cir. cumftances, it is needless for me to impress the necessity of taking much more enlarged and comprehensive views. We have heard, and that too on the highest authority, what the views of the present governors of France are with respect to this country. We have heard the declarations of a number of French generals in offering themselves to accompany the Great Consul in the vessel which was to carry to this country the destinies and the vengeance of the republic. What the deftinies of France may be I shall not pretend to determine. All that every friend to the tranquillity of mankind can wish is, that they may ulLORD SHEFFIELD could not help considering the timately lead to the happiness, justice, and freeproposed plan as a measure of the most oppressive dom of the French people, as well as to the restoand provoking nature. In the space of three ration of those principles on which essentially demonths it would appear, that one hundred and pends the repose of Europe. With respect to the ten thousand men were to be raised by ballot; other part of the cargo, I have no hesitation in sayand what must be the consequence, but to throwing, that it is of a very different description. We their wives and children upon their respective parishes.

LORD HOBART denied that ministers were liable to the charge of inactivity in preparing and maturing the plan. What delay it met with was not imputable to them, but to circumstances over which they had no controul. Into the defence of the Treaty of Amiens he should not now enter; he should only observe, that the peace, when concluded, disbanded the militia of necessity. Neither was the delay in recruiting the army imputable to minifters; nothing was more unfounded than such an imputation. He was sorry that those noble lords who so ftrongly objected to the present plan, did not condescend to propose a better. It was also objected to minifters that they did not adopt offensive measures; but the contrary was notorious to every body, for those measures had not only been employed, but they were known daily to succeed. As to the charge of leaving the Continent in the ftyle in which it now ftood, he could not help wondering that it should come from the noble Lord (Grenville) who had solely presided in the foreign department, and who had left the Continent nearly in the same condition in which it was now placed.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Monday, June 20. (Min. p. 973.)

are told that it is to consist of the vengeance of France against this country. I verily believe, that if ever Buonaparté attempts a passage across the Channel, and endeavours to land on our coafts, he will find the passage more tremendous than the passage over the Styx, so beautifully described by one of the fineft poets of antiquity.

"Stabant orantes primi transmittere cursum, Tendebantque manus ripa ulterioris amore, "Fata obftant, triftique palus inamabilis unda, Alligat, et novies Styx interfusa coercet.”

[KING'S MESSAGE ON THE ARMY OF RESERVE ]— The SECRETARY at WAR: in calling the attention of the Committee to the subject of his Majesty's" message, communicated on Saturday said, I wish, before I proceed to any details, to say a few words I am sure that I only speak the sentiments of on the main objects of that message. The objects the great majority when I say, that the First Conwhich it points out are, firft, the adoption of fteps sul of France cherishes, as the object deatest to his for making more effectual provision for the secu-heart, the deftruction of the essential interefts, the rity of the country against those threats of inva-independence, the very exiflence of this country. sion which are so openly avowed by the enemy; These views have been too distinctly developed to

principles. The firft is, that a large additional force should be, as speedily as possible, colle&ed for the more effectual security of the kingdom. The second consideration is, that the services of the body of forces so raised shall be extended to every part of the United Kingdom. In defence of this part of the system, it is not necessary to employ many words. Since the Union with Ireland, the identity of the two countries is established, and, by extending the services of this Army of Reserve to Ireland, a much larger body of the re

render it necessary for me to enter into any argu | ment on the subject. These views cannot be bet ter explained than by ftating them shortly, as tending to the degradation of Great Britain from the rank which she has long held, to her ultimate reduction to the debased condition of vassalage to France. What may be the result of the views of the First Consul of France, I shall not take on me to say, for it is not easy to determine what can be imputed to the workings of a mind influenced more by personal and false glory, than by plans of real advantage. But, irregular and extraordina-gular troops will be left applicable to any purpose ry as was his whole conduct, it is not less neces- which may require a regular force. The third sary to watch against the consequences of the mad principle to which I wish to advert is, that the leparoxysms of his ambition, than the more con- vies shall be conducted in a manner as little burcealed projects of opposite characters. When we then some as possible to the country. It is on hear of successive armies and fleets being sacri- these principles that I now go on to explain the ficed in the project of invading this country; details of the plan, by which a very large addiwhen we hear that no repulse will divert him from tional force is to be established. As to the age of his plan of injuring this country, and that he con- those to be included, it is meant that all males siders no sacrifice too great. When we know this, from the age of 18 to 45 shall come under its opeI contend, that it is the solemn duty of govern- ration. This army, when levied, shall be immement to submit to the consideration of Parlia- diately assembled, and brought into a state of proment, the propriety of taking some effectual fteps per discipline under officers to whom I shall preto put the country in a state of complete security. sently advert. I have already said that the serIt is on these principles that I have now risen, and vices of this body, whom I shall characterize by that I hope the pian which I shall now submit, the name of the Army of Reserve, are to be extendwill appear one at sing out of the circumftances ed to every part of the United Kingdom. I have in which the country is laced. I his plan is, that ftated the principle on which this extension is proan additional body of fifty thousand men shall be posed; and when I add that it is meant to extend raised, assembled, and organised, with all possible their services to the islands of Jersey and Guernexpedition. Of this aditional force, it is pro- sey, I am confident that no gert. can have any posed, that forty thousand shall be raised in Great reasonable ground of objection. As to the time Britain, and ten thousand in Ireland. It is in- to which their service is to extend, it has been tended that they shall be assembled with the leaft judged expedient that for ballotted men the period possible delay, and immediately be placed under the should be four years, or for six months after the command of military officers of approved charac- conclusion of a treaty of peace. The mode in ter and experience. With this force, properly which the ballot is to be conducted is to be simiorganized, added to the force already in existence, lar to the ballot of the Militia, and, as far as they I trust, that under the blessings of Providence, we are applicable, all the regulations relative to the asshall be placed in a state of complete security sembling of the Militia are to be adhered to. I will against any attack on the part of the enemy, while ftate the grounds on which such an arrangement we shall have applicable to offensive purpose, a has been adopted. The ballot appeared the most very considerable disposable force. On this part effectual and speedy way of procuring the levies. of the subject I wish particularly to solicit atten- I do not mean to say that voluntary offers of ser tion. I believe it is not necessary for me to wafte vice may not be found of high importance, and any of the time of the Committee in attempting to adopted to a very considerable extent, On the prove that the consequences of such a system muft contrary, I entertain a perfect conviction that the be highly beneficial. It has been too much the people of this country are sufficiently aware of the subject of regret, that at the commencement of importance of the ftruggle in which we are now war the state of our military preparations has ne-engaged. I know when these feelings are properver at all corresponded with the means of exertions which the country possessed. At the commencement of the late war this disadvantage was fully experienced. At that time the fate of our military power was not at all in proportion with our general resources, with the other means of annoyance which we possessed. As far as I underftand our present military system, I think that an important change, sooner or later, cannot be avoided. This is not, indeed, the time for inftituting any changes in this very important department of the pubiic service. Such changes can with propriety only be introduced in a period of general tranquillity, but the whole syftem ought, as soon as possible, to be probed to the bottom, and I trust that whenever a fair opportunity is presented, it will meet with due consideration from Parliament. I adverted to this accidentally, but now return to the subject more directly under consideration. In the plan which I shall now have the honour of stating, there are three leading

ly excited there will be no want of national spirit, in supporting a cause involving interests of so important a nature. I know what has been done in a great national cause in former times. I can look back to the public spirit of this country in the time of King William, when in less than six weeks thirty battalions were organized for the publie service. At the same time giving the highest credit to the spirit, the zeal, and the loyalty of the country, I think it necessary for me to state, that it has been judged expedient to follow the system of the Militia Baliot, as the speedieft and the most effectual mode of raising the necessary supplies. I recoilet what took place in 1797, on the syftem for calling on each parish to furnish a certain quota of men for manning the navy. The num ber proposed to be raised was seven thousand, but not more than fourteen hundred were made applicable to the public service. It is from the knowledge of the plan being thus inefficacious that I am induced not to resort to it.—The next point

the measure which is now proposed to the Commit- Gent. were entitled to very great weight; and if it tee, is one, which if carried into effet, will alike was now a matter of option whether to have a regular support the glory of the country in the prosecution of or a militia force, he would have no difficulty in prethe contest, and tend to bring it to a speedy termiferring the former, if in the present circumstances it nation. I shall not be contradicted, when I say, that were practicable to raise such a force by the ordinary there is no more effectual way of carrying on the means within reasonable time. The greater part, contest with honour and glory to the country, than however, of the objections which the right hon. Gent. by placing in the hands of government uch a large advanced this evening to the militia system, would disposable force as the measure which I have been have come with more propriety in the course of the recommending is calculated to afford. I need not discussions which took place last sessions upon that remind the Committee how much stress has been laid subject; but, though he now thought proper on the war, which was to be waged against our strongly to urge his opposition to the measure, because financial resources. Happily we have already made it was founded on the plan of the militia, yet he adsuch arrangements as will effectually defeat his projects mitted that the raising of a regular army in lieu of it in this respect, and we have now, only, to teach him, was quite impracticable. Therefore, the right hon. that if he was disappointed in his views of gaining Gent.'s only reason for declining to vote against this any advantage over us, by endeavouring to ruin us by measure was, that it was better to have the proposed a war of finance, he was equally erroneous in his force than none at all. But, the right hon. Gent.'s calculations, when he supposed, that the energy and chief charge against ministers was, their delay in the resources of the country were not equal to every bringing forward this measure. That delay, however, emergency. I believe that the adoption of this meawas designed with this view, that both the regular and sure, will not only discourage Buonaparié, but that supplementary Militia should be fully supplied before it must enable us to attack him in some of his weak the balloting necessary for the force now under conand vulnerable points, and ultimately force him, sideration should commence. Such was the motive instead of looking abroad to the destruction of fo- which influenced that conduct in ministers of which reign nations, to survey his own internal situation, the right hon. Gent. complained. Ministers had prowhich was much more precarious than he was perhaps ceeded by a gradual succession of measures to provide at present disposed to imagine. I believe that the for the complete resistance of the enemy, and in a system for which I have been contending, would pro- way which, he trusted, would meet the approbation of duce perfect security at home, and by convincing the the House. As to the revision of the militia system, First Consul of France that the spirit of Englishmen he would say that this was not the proper time for never can be subdued, induce him to listen to proposals that discussion; and he would ask the right hon. of an amicable description.-He concluded by moving Gent. how he could suppose it possible to recruit a first for an address to his Majesty, thanking him for regular army to the number of 50,000 men without his gracious message, and assuring him of cordial resorting to means of compulsion which he hoped even support. He next moved, that the chairman be in the right hon. Gent. himself would not approve? structed to move for leave to bring in a belt for raising With respect to the danger of the country he had no a large additional force for the more effectual defence hesitation in saying, that he never under-rated it: of the country and the more vigorous prosecution of neither in public or private did he ever attempt to the war.-MR. WINDHAM opposed the motion in an disguise it. He felt it to be of that nature which could eloquent speech, of great length, which will be found be contemplated without dismay, but which no worthy at p. 930 of this volone. or rational man could contemplate with indifference. To the right hon. Gent.'s ideas upon the propriety of raising men for the regular army for a limited time, there were many objections, the force of which he felt, particularly in consequence of our colonial possessions; for, supposing men were enlisted for only five or six years, what numerous inconveniences would arise to the service, especially where regiments were stationed in America, the West Indies, or any remote quarter of the empire. Perhaps in the event of a whole regiment being ordered on any expedition, only the skeleton of such regiment would be forthcoming. In fact, the system of the right hon. Gent. scarcely ever prevailed in any nation which had colonial possessions, and in this country it would be quite absurd. Returning to the measure before the Committee, and the observation of the right hon. Gent. that it would create a difficulty and impediment, if not an insurmountable obstacle, in the way of recruiting the army, he would ask the House to consider its character and object fully, and if any better should be suggested to prefer it. If any member could devise a plan for raising a force within the proper time by means more effectual and constitutional, he should embrace it; but even the right hon. Gent. himself admitted that it was impossible. Why then did he oppose it? his opposition was not quite correctly founded, for his arguments generally applied to extremes. He always dwelt upon comparisons between the regular army and the militia, and entirely left that middle course which was precisely the description of the force now under

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it was not his intention to follow the right hon. Gent. through the great variety of observations he had thought proper to make; but he would submit it to the candid judgment of the House, whether ministers were liable to the charge of bringing forward tardy and ill-considered measures of preparation. It was now only five weeks since his Majesty's message had been delivered to the House, and within that period 50,000 men had been voted, and the Supplementary Militia had been called out. Therefore he thought ministers had not preserved that kind of dignified calm which the right hon. Gent. would ascribe to them. He disclaimed the imputation of wishing to conceal the actual state of the country; and the facts he had stated relative to the increase of the navy, and the calling out of the Supplementary Militia were sufficient to shew that the assertion that ministers were secret in their preparations, was unfounded.. In addition, it was now proposed to raise 50,000 men by ballot, similar to the militia, and free from two great objections which that right hon. Gent. had frequently urged against the militia system. It was to be extended in its service, and was to be officered by men of military experience; a circumstance which must secure that discipline which constituted the life and soul of The proposed force, therefore, was not liable to the objections which would apply to the militia. Many of the arguments of the right hon.

an army.

But