be made in the provisions relating to the volunteer system,

Lord Hobart spoke shortly in answer to what had fallen from the noble lord. With respect to the general subject, he need scarcely obesrve, it was in the serious consideration of his majesty's government, and every practicable opportunity would be taken to ameliorate the volunteer system, and to render that part of the national force as efficacious as possible. With respect to the difficulties upon which so much stress had been laid by the noble lord, they certainly appeared to him in a very different light, and he contended that the bill before the House, as far as it applied, went to obviate them-it went to settle the important point of the exemptions. With respect to the returns, no contradictory consideration appeared to him in the mode chalked out for those proceedings, and although the officer whose duty it was to make the returns alluded to, might possibly not be a perfect master of the provisions of the regulating acts, yet, he may easily obtain the necessary degree of information. He could by no means admit the noble lords position, that the present was such an advanced period of the session, as to render a thorough investigation of the subject impracticable. With a reference to the ensuing recess, which would cause a temporary separation of their lordships, such an observation to a certain extent, did apply, yet the session would subsequently be sufficiently long for every purpose adverted to: and he had also to observe, that the present bill, as indeed every measure of the kind should, contained a provision, authorizing its alteration or repeal in the course of the present session.

Lord Romney observed, that he approved highly of the volunteer system, but suggested that a force of this kind, pervading the whole country, and intended to act together, ought to be put upon the same footing. As it stood at present, some were to exercise only 20 days, others 34, and so on. This might create jealousies and ill humour, which ought to be avoided. He thought also the exemptions should be granted without reference to the time of the corps being accepted; as they were by no means accepted in the order of their applications. This might arise from letters being mislaid, or some other casualty, such as usually occurs in a press of business. He concurred with his noble relation (Lord Grenville) in his opinions with respect to the regulations of many corps of volunteers, and the unmilitary manner in which they were governed. He had listened to him on that point with the greatest admiration. He also disliked

their Committees and their Sub Committees, and much as he was attached to the volunteer system, he would rather choose that every man of them should be disbanded, than that they should be permitted to continue under such unmilitary regulations. If, said his lord-hup, these Committees are suffered t exist, I have no hesitation to say, that the Monarchy is not safe for six months.

Lord Hobart, in reply to the noble lord who spoke last, said, that the non-acceptance of the volunteers in the order of their applications, arose from the unexpected press of offers, which made government unwilling to act, except upon some general system.

Earl Darn'ey said, that although this bill was extremely imperfect, he rejoiced that even so much was done with regard to the volunteers. The system would still require a great deal of improvement. He approved highly the idea that had been thrown out in another place, with regard to the appointment of field officers and adjutants to the different corps, which, as they were to be exempted, ought to be rendered as efficient as possible. He alluded to a query he had put to the noble Secretary of State, relative to the intention of his Majesty's ministers with respect to volunteer regulations previous to the recess; though these, as in the instance of the bill before the House, had fallen short of what he was convinced was necessary to be done, yet he was happy to hear it authoritatively stated, that the general subject, and which was one of the last importance, was seriously in the consideration of his Majesty's government. He perfectly agreed with every word that the noble lord (Grenville) had said, with regard to the regulations, committees, and unmilitary government of many of the volunteer corps, and thought it was necessary that this should be immediately corre ted.

Lord Hawkesbury observed, that the noble earl had certainly put the query to him, which he had alluded to, but it would be in his recollection, that it referred to a general and comprehensive system of regulation, to which he had truly replied, that he knew of no intention on the part of ministers to bring forward any measures on that broad principle previous to the recess. The present was obviously a bill of an explanatory nature, and went to certain points, on which speedy. legislative interference was necessary, and, in his mind, it went fully o obviate those difficulties it professed to remove. Much had been said, and truly, of the vast importance of the subject, and the necessity of farther regulatious;but then the House would be aware, that it was one of an extensive and complicated, as well as of an important na

ture. To a certain degree the principle was new; already had the volunteers been

rendered more efficacious than those which had existed in the late war: the system in the present case must be gradually ameliorated, and in the course of time rendered still more efficacious, and less exceptionable. The original principle on which the force was created and the services of its members accepted of, should not at the same time be lost sight of. The volunteer system was also to be regarded in a certain view, which, under the consideration of the contest in which we were engaged being a protracted one, was one of considerable importance, namely, economy. At the first glance it would appear, that the services of the volunteers were to be acquired incalculably cheaper than those of any other description of the national force. The consideration of the volunteer system, was not only to a certain degree, a novel one, but it proceeded on distinct principles; on its own peculiar nature and merits then, was that system to be considered. On these principles it was regarded by his Majesty's government, who, he repeated, certainly contemplated the subject with the most serious attention.

The Duke of Clarence then rose and observed, that he entirely concurred in the sentiments of the noble lord, whom he had in his eye (Grenville), with regard to the volunteers. He approved the system, but was satisfied that it required a great deal of Improvement. He did not intend at present to enter freely into the question; as, after what the noble lord opposite (Hawkesbury) had said, with respect to the intentions of government, any long discussion now was totally useless. And, indeed, it must be apparent, that till the imperfection's that no doubt prevailed in the system of the volunteers were ready to be corrected, the less that was said about the matter the bet

ter. He would therefore take his own advice and instantly sit down.-The question was then put: the bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow; after which their Lordships immediately adjourned.

| The preamble of the bill recited several acts which he should have deemed presumption in him to refer to, being altogether unacquainted with ecclesiastical law, had he not received the assistance and advice of a gentleman eminently skilled in that subject (Sir W. Scott). He was happy to think, that that learned person entertained so favourable an opinion of the present measure, that he himself would have introduced it before this time, had not the difficulties alluded to presented themselves. Such, his grace entertained sanguine hopes, might be done away. With this view he had introduced the bill at the present moment. He therefore moved, that it should be printed, that their lordships might have an opportunity of giving it deliberate consideration during the recess. -The bill was accordingly ordered to be printed. The Volunteer Explanatory Bill went through a Committee. On the report being brought up; the Lord Chancellor proposed some verbal amendments, chiefly with a view to remove the objections stated by Lord Grenville on a former night, and to declare that volunteers should not, in every case, be free from ballot for the militia or army of reserve, for twelve month's after the return of the commanding officer, certifying, that they had served the stipulated number of days: but that they should become liable to such ballots, the moment they actually ceased to serve in any volunteer corps. The amendments were agreed to, and the bill ordered to be read a third time on Tuesday.-Adjourned;

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HOUSE OF LORDS.

Monday, December 19.

[MINUTES.]-Counsel were heard at considerable length in continuation, relative to the Appeal from Chancery; Keighley v. the East-India Company, viz. Mr. Adam, as second counsel for the respondents. Their Lordships postponed the final hearing till

to-morrow.

[VOLUNTEER EXEMPTION BILL.]—On the question being put for the third readingof the Volunteer Exemption Bill, a conversation of some length arose, which was opened by

Earl Fitzwilliam, who entered into the general subject in some degree of detail. In the course of his observations, his lordship made a variety of remarks upon certain provisions in the existing acts upon the subject; particularly upon the 42d and 434 of his Majesty, and also upon the act of the 334. He expatiated upon the principle on which the volunteers had originally tendered their services, and the terms upon which they were accepted, and which he seemed to contrast with the system which had subse

quently been adopted for their regulation: | from the tone and direction of the noble earl's voice, we were precluded from hearing many of his observations; but he argued that the entire system required, and speedily, a considerable degree of revision: doubts had arisen, and difficulties were daily experienced, which required legislative interference for their explanation and removal. Many of the provisions to which he had referred were inconsistent with the principle upon which the volunteers originally came forward, and, from his view of certain parts of the acts, he deemed it matter for consideration, how far, in certain cases, the volunteers were or were not subject to particular provisions of the martial law. These were points which required the most serious consideration. With respect to the point of exemption, the bill, he seemed to think, was neither sufficiently efficacious, nor did it extend far enough: there were several doubts and difficulties which it would not tend to remove; and he remarked upon what he conceived to be the hurried progress of the bill through the House. He therefore, in order to afford an opportunity of considering the introduction of some farther provisions to obviate the difficulties to which he had alluded, would propose that the bill be recommitted. The noble earl concluded by moving accorditgly.

Lord Hawkesbury, in answer to several points which had fallen from the noble earl, observed, that he regretted his absence from the House for some days past, as then he would be sensible how little ground existed for the charge of precipitation against ministers in the progress of the bill through the House; and especially his absence from the Committee on the bill last Saturday, a stage in which many of the noble earl's observations would more regularly apply. The bill was introduced into that House on Thursday, read a second time on Friday, when some discussion of the measure took place, committed on Saturday, and lay over for a third reading this day. The bill before the House was merely of an explanatory nature, and very limited in its operation; it tended to do away certain practical difficulties, for which an immediate legislative interposition was obviously necessary. These principally related, as appeared by the bill, to certain points of exemption. With respect to the general subject, relative to which a great deal of what had fallen from the noble earl applied, he repeated what he had said on former occasions, that it was certainly in the serious consideration of his

Majesty's government, and they were fully

aware of what could be advanced on the grounds of revising and ameliorating the volunteer system, but its extensive and complicated nature was at the same time to be considered; however, it was intended that no practicable opportunity of doing that which was on all hands deemed so desirable and important, should be omitted on the part of ministers. At the same time, though he threw out these observations, he wished to be understood as not pledging himself to the production of any specific measure at any particular time.-Recurring again to some of the noble earl's detailed observations, he admitted, to a certain degree, some doubts and difficulties had arisen with respect to certain provisions of the relevant acts, and respecting which, the most regular authorities, at the time, were resorted to, namely, the law officers of the crown; on opinions promulgated by these, the magistrates acted. With respect to the bill, he deemed its provisions fully adequate to obviate those difficulties it professed to remove; and it was such as, under all the circumstances of the case, it was deemed necessary to propose to the legislature: but with regard to any contingent difficulties which might prevail (or such as seemed to be in the mind of the noble earl) until it should please Parliament to adopt farther regulations, if such in its wisdom it should deem necessary, that regular quarter which he had alluded to as arbitrating on former occasions, would be again resorted to, for the direction of the magistrates, &c. in the discharge of their duties; he would therefore press the third reading of the bill.

Earl Fitzwilliam, in explanation, supported some of the provisions he had in the first instance advanced. He did not think that magistrates were entitled to act in vir tue of an opinion delivered by the law officers of the Crown. He apprehended that they could only act agreeably to act of Parliament; and that where any act was inexplicable, they were not entitled to supply its defects by the opinions of any lawyers, however respectable. If it was meant that the exemptions should extend to volunteers of every description, very few would remain subject to the ballots for the militia and army of reserve; and he thought it of importance that one mode should not be adopted in one parish and another in another. He adverted to the state of the ballots, &c. in the parts of the country where he was connected. These were, in consequence of the difficulties which occurred, in some instances delayed: and the lieutenancy felt themselves

considerably at a loss. He conceived it to be the duty of ministers, to lose no time in obviating those difficulties.

Lord Grantley said a few words in support of what fell from the noble Secretary of State, and adverted to the necessity which existed for the explanatory bill then under consideration.

The Lord Chancellor argued, that nothing which fell from the noble earl, militared against the passing of the bill then before the House. The greater part of what his lord ship had advanced, went to points which had no connexion whatever with the bill, which was of an explanatory and a very limited nature He was free to confess his disapprobation, in certain points of view, of proceedings of this kind: he liked not explanatory act after explanatory act, and exposition after exposition. These considerations should be left, as far as possible, to the construction and explanation of those in whose province it was regularly to explain them: he alluded principally to his Majesty's law officers. With respect to the measure regularly under consideration, the noble and learned lord coincided with, and enforced what had fallen from the noble Secretary of State.

Earl Fitzwilliam, in additional explanation, observed, that his object was not to resist the progress of the bill; as far as it went, he rather approved of it; but he considered it as by no means sufficiently efficacious or extensive, and, in that view, he thought it susceptible of amendment.

The Lord Chancellor then put the question, and after a few words between him and the noble earl, respecting the point of order on that proceeding, the bill was read a third time, and passed; and a message was immediately sent to the Commons, acquainting them that their lordships had agreed to the bill, with certain amendments. Their lordships then, after disposing of some routine business, adjourned during pleasure.-After a short interval, Mr. Sargent, accompanied by several members, returned the Volunteer Corps Regulation Bill from the Commons, who had agreed to their lordships' amendments. This being notified to the House, an adjournment till to morrow immediately took place.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Monday, December 19. [MINUTES.]-Colonel Barton, from the office of the Inspector General of the army of reserve, brought up the general return of the number of men raised for the

royal army of reserve up to the present month of December. Ordered to be printed. Mr. Parr, from the African Company, presented some accounts from that company. Ordered to lie on the table.-Mr. Dent presented a petition from the prisoners confined for debt in Lancaster Gaol, praying for relief.-Colonel Stanley and Mr. Tierney presented similar petitions from the prisoners confined for debt in Chester Gaol, and in the Fleet. Ordered to lie on the table.-A new writ was ordered for the borough of Caermarthen, in the room of J. G. Phillips, Esq. who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.A person from the Excise, brought up an account of the quantity of table beer and small beer, which had paid duty from January, 1802, to January, 1803.-The report of the Committee of Supply, respecting the sum granten for the encouragement of the linen manufactures in Ireland, was brought up and agreed to.

[IRISH IMPORT DUTIES BILL.] — Mr. Corry said, he rose for the purpose of giving a notice relative to the Ways and Means of Ireland. It was not usual to go into the Ways and Means of Ireland, previous to the Christmas recess, he therefore now only wished to give notice of his intention upon that subject, and the rather, because the military duties of many of the Irish members rendered it impossible for them at present to attend their duty in Parliament. The notice he now gave, related to the consolidation of the subsisting import duties, and some of the inland duties in Ireland. A schedule of those duties had been laid before Parliament last session, and was agreed to, but certain considerations, particularly a wish to give the fullest possible time to merchants for the investigation of the subject, induced the postponement of further proceedings upon it. A similar schedule would be laid before Parliament after the recess. He hoped the House would excuse him for being thus special in his notice, because he was anxious that it should be well understood in Ireland, particularly by the merchants. The duties. referred to, were principally upon foreign articles, either imported directly into Ireland, or through Great-Britain; but in consequence of the stipulations in the Act of Union, nor upon any articles, the produce of Great-Britain. The duties now payable on foreign articles were principally those under the 40th Geo. III. cap. 4, the 41st Geo III. cap. 33, which had since been continued, and the 42d Geo. III. cap. 117. But the consolidation was not to be made strictly and precisely upon the duties as they now stood, because in all cases where there

were fractions of a penny, the fraction would be rejected, and the duty brought to the next integer either above or below. In the former case, the revenue would be increased a little; and, in the latter case, it would be diminished a little. In some cases, certain duties imposed by 42 Geo. III. cap. 117, of 3 per cent. on imports, and 1 or per cent. on exports, would be extended by this schedule to East-India goods. The drawbacks now allowed on the export of foreign articles to foreign countries were those under the acts of the 40th and 41st Geo. III. the duties under the 421 Geo. III. cap. 117, not now drawn back, were by the schedule as voted, drawn back. He had but one more remark to trouble the House with; by the 40th Geo. III. passed in the last session of the Irish Parliament, the duties were laid upon most articles ad valorem, and the additional duty imposed by the 42d Geo. III. cap. 117, was a rated duty, or the reverse, which of course caused considerable trouble to the merchants, for whose accommodation, and in order to facilitate business, it would now be proposed, that the duties under these acts should be reduced to one and the same denomination, viz. either a rated duty or an ad valorem duty, according to the nature of the article. The schedule, which he should propose after the recess, would almost in every instance be the same as that of last session, yet he wished to be distinctly understood, that it might vary from it; because, where alterations were suggested, either by the merchants themselves or by others, the good sense of which was apparent, they would undoubtedly be attended to. In the course of the last session of Parliament, he had given notice that he should prepare, for the consideration of Parliament, a measure in the shape of a property tax for Ireland; he did not mean at present to make any observation upon that subject, except to say that he should endeavour to prepare a measure of that sort, and to submit it to Parliament soon after the recess. He had only further to add, that he should propose that the duties should be permanent, in order to meet the permanent charges of Ireland, and not annual, as they had been up to the present time.

[VOLUNTEER EXEMPTION BILL.]—A message from the Lords, informed the House, their lordships had agreed to the Volunteer Exemption Amendment Bill, with several amendments, to which they desired the concurrence of the House.-Mr. Secretary Yorke moved, that the amendments be now read.The first amendment being accordingly read, VOL IV.

1

Mr. Secretary Yorke said, that on the reading of the bill and the amendment, it would strike any one that this amendment was necessary; for the bill, as it went from the House up to the other House of Parliament, exempted persons accepted and enrolled as volunteers from serving in the militia, but had no provision on being ballotted to serve in the militia before they became volunteers, and this amendment was therefore necessary, in order that persons who had been ballotted for the militia, should be obliged to do so, if they should happen to quit their volunteer corps; that they should claim no exemption, on account of having been voluuteers, but that such exemptions should continue only while they remained volunteers, for which reason he trusted the House would have no objection to the amendment.

The Speaker observed, upon the point of order, that the usual course was to read all the amendments over once, before any discussion took place upon them, and that the season for observation was, regularly speaking, on the question of second reading, or of agreeing to the amendments. This was the more necessary to be observed, because by it the House could see the bearing of the amendments altogether, before it entertained any discussion upon them. -The amendments were then read; they were all verbal except the first, ot which the substance is already stated. On the question for the second reading,

Mr. Windham took an objection to the House, at present, in this matter. He said it was usual to adjourn the consideration of all amendments made by the Lords, in any bill sent to them from that House, in order to give the members time to understand it. He did not profess to understand this amend ment, thus brought down and read upon the sudden. He saw no harm in postponing the consideration of it for twenty-four hours. He said, that an idea had gone abroad, whether true or not, he did not pretend to say, that the amendments made by the Lords in this bill, were such as the House had not been accustomed to receive and acquiesce in. He dared to say, that was not likely to be the case upon such an occasion as this, but that was a point, however well assured, it was impossible for the House to know; for which reason, he thought this subject ought to stand over until to-morrow: this he pressed the more particularly, as many gentlemen had gone away under an idea that this bill would not have been brought from the House of Lords to-night; and that if these amendments were now agreed to, these gen* LII