think we know all the answers, but after living for 30, 40, or 50 years, and making our own living and supporting our families, we independent blind people feel we know a little more about it. Our suggestions should not be rejected as dictation.

Mrs. GREEN. Then I misunderstood your answer to Congressman Daniels' question. Did he say "dictated" or "consulted", and you said "No, he did not say 'consulted', but he said 'dictated'."

Mr. WOOD. He said "I will not be dictated to."

Mrs. GREEN. I would think that would be a rather admirable statement. I think any individual in a State organization has pressures from every side, and the fact he was independent and would refuse to be dictated to, but would be glad to consult with people would be to his

credit.

Mr. WOOD. Yes, it is, provided it does not go to the extent that any suggestion made by an individual or a group, no matter how constructive it is, would be considered as dictatorial by the director.

Mrs. GREEN. Congressman Giaimo, do you have any questions? Mr. GIAIMO. No.

Mrs. GREEN. We have one more witness.

STATEMENT OF RALPH L. THOMPSON, TAMPA, FLA.

Mrs. GREEN. All right, Mr. Thompson, you may proceed. Mr. THOMPSON. I am going to summarize the statement which I have prepared in writing, and present the statement to you.

Mrs. GREEN. Thank you, and your complete statement will be made a part of the record.

(The statement referred to follows:)

TESTIMONY OF RALPH L. THOMPSON, TAMPA, FLA.

My name is Ralph Lawrence Thompson. Street, Tampa, Fla.

I reside at 104 West Hanlon

I am totally blind. Blinded at the age of 6, I was enrolled at the Perkins School for the Blind in Watertown, Mass. At the age of 23, I received my A.B. degree from Harvard College. In 1945, I received a master's degree from Harvard University School of Education. I taught at Perkins School for the Blind from 1941 to 1945. I became vocational rehabilitation counselor with the Florida Council for the Blind, a federally supported State agency, in 1945. My position in this agency was entitled "industrial and workshop specialist." I resigned from the agency in January 1956. I have worked as a factory laborer, salesman, and a businessman. At present I support myself and family from property management. I have a home and a wife and three fine daughters. Gentlemen, I know something about this business of being blind.

I am a member of the Florida Federation of the Blind, the Tampa chapter, affiliated with the National Federation of the Blind. For 5 years I was president of the Florida federation. Now I am vice president.

It has been my view for many years that rehabilitation of the blind requires self-expression through organization. Until 1952, there was no statewide organization of the blind in Florida. In that year, when the Florida Federation of the Blind was organized, I and the one other blind staff member employed in the Florida Council for the Blind consulted with the executive director, Mr. Harry E. Simmons, about joining the new organization. At that time, Mr. Simmons told us that he had no objections.

Unfortunately, as the Florida Federation of the Blind grew and became vocal in its expressions of independent views, the Florida Council for the Blind became, at first, annoyed and then hostile and belligerent. For my part, I continued to hope that the Florida Council for the Blind would come around to see the need to receive the counsel of, and work with, the Florida Federation. For 5 years as president of the Florida federation, I observed how the antagonistic attitude of the Florida council toward independent organization of the blind in

Florida made impossible any kind of cooperation or mutual respect between this Federally supported State agency and the organized blind in the State.

I shall not attempt to recite the whole story of this antagonism. Instead, let me show you just a few of the ways by which the officers and employees of the Florida council used their authority to stop our organization.

Florida has about 70 vending stand managers. These stands and their managers are controlled by the Florida Council for the Blind. A considerable portion of the revenue from these stands is received by the Florida council and used for its administrative expenses and its programs for the blind. Originally some of the vending stand managers became members of the Florida federation. However, a number of those who originally became members have given up their membership for fear that this association would jeopardize their position in the vending stand program. A great many others among the stand managers have never joined the Florida federation out of the same fear.

This fear arose because the hostility of the Florida council toward the Florida federation became a matter of common knowledge through the talk of council officers and employees. On several occasions, this hostility was set out in written communications of the agency to the stand managers. The most significant of these communications was issued under date of October 7, 1955, and was addressed to all vending stand operators by the general manager of the vending stand department. This memorandum, covering three single-spaced pages, was an all-out attack upon the national federation and its policies. The memorandum concluded with the flat statement that the national federation fostered changes that hurt, instead of help, the blind.

In 1956, the St. Petersburg chapter of the Florida Federation of the Blind was persuaded by pressures from Florida council officers and employees to disaffiliate from the Florida federation. The Florida council, working with the Lion's Club in St. Petersburg, refused to assist in providing the blind the services of a community center unless the St. Petersburg chapter drop its affiliation with the Florida federation. I would like to read to you part of a report written by one of the members and leaders of the St. Petersburg chapter telling of the chapter's decision:

"The Florida Council for the Blind is a State organization of salaried employees, the board of directors being appointed by the Governor. They have a paid staff of over 60 people and are a general advisory educational and counseling service. They give no direct relief to the blind. The Florida Federation of the Blind is a statewide private organization, a member of the National Federation of the Blind. It has local chapters throughout the State and its officers, National, State, and local are blind persons. The national federation is dedicated to the principle of self-help, while the council is a political agency which works for and not with the blind. We are enthusiastic supporters of the Florida Federation of the Blind, but it seems impossible to straighten out the local tangle. The compromise for setting up a local community center of the blind was the wisest course to pursue at least until such time 'when the local differences will be forgotten'."

Then the writer told how the St. Petersburg chapter chose to disaffiliate from the Florida federation to preserve the cooperation that it needed from the Florida council and the local Lion's Club to have a community center.

A good many blind persons in Florida have told me, confidentially and otherwise, that they did not feel it wise to join the Florida federation, or any affiliated group, because to do so would be going contrary to the advice given by the employees of the Florida council. To neutralize this organizing obstacle the Florida federation has repeatedly requested the Florida council to make a statement to the blind of Florida to the effect that each blind person is free to exercise his own will to join or not to join a club affiliated with the Florida federation. The Florida council has refused to issue such a statement and, on the contrary, its officers and employees have continued to advise blind persons not to join and not to participate in activities of the Florida federation.

Shortly after the Florida federation was organized, the Florida council established a blind advisory board. The chairman of the council appointed the board members. Every blind person appointed to the board was a person who, for some reason, was under the control or domination of the council. Four of the present members are vending stand managers. Another is a teacher at the Florida State School for the Blind. Another is a director of the Lighthouse for the Blind. Another is a lifelong friend of the executive director of the Florida council. This blind advisory board has been used by the Florida council

as an instrument with which to oppose organization of the Florida federation and to negate the recommendations of the independent blind.

On August 11, 1958, the Florida Council for the Blind sent an official communication to its staff and vending stand personnel, outlining the Florida Council for the Blind policy toward affiliation with outside organizations. This communication again failed to deny the complaint of the federation that the staff and employees of the Florida Council for the Blind use the prestige and powers of their offices to prevent blind persons, who either are seeking service or receiving service rendered by the Florida Council for the Blind, from joining the Florida Federation of the Blind. Further, it completely fails again to order the staff and employees to use the prestige and powers of their offices to uphold the constitutional right of blind people, who either are seeking service or being served, to freely join and freely express themselves through organizations of their choice, such as the National Federation of the Blind.

More significantly, this same communication does not fail to confirm once again the correctness of the charge that the Florida Council for the Blind has been and continues to interfere with, control, and dictate to blind people wishing to join the federation, who are connected with and dependent upon this federally supported State agency because they either are seeking or receiving its services. It reaffirms this established agency policy by quoting directly from an official 1953 letter to me by H. E. Simmons, executive director of the Florida Council for the Blind, as follows: "Furthermore, there is no objection to persons connected with the council joining the federation, providing it does not interfere with their work and is in no way detrimental to the council program." This communication, coming more than a year after the introduction of congressional bills to curb such abridgment of the constitutional rights of the blind is, it seems to me, an intentionally brazen declaration that the federally supported council has no intention of, and has not been, upholding and complying with the constitutional law of our land.

Now why is it that the Florida council has been so opposed to the Florida federation? In my opinion there are two reasons. First, by organizing and joining together, the blind expose conditions which independently they would not dare expose. Individually many blind know that the earnings of the blind are far less than is reported. They know that far fewer blind persons are gainfully employed than is reported. They know that the rehabilitation services are far less successful than is reported. Individually these conditions may be known, but they will not be spoken of, certainly not in public. In independent organizations of the blind, these conditions are discussed and are, sooner or later, brought to the attention of the State legislatures through these organizations.

Second, organizations of the blind make the agencies work harder. The big effort of the organized blind in Florida is to put our people into real jobs. This is the hardest part of rehabilitation work for the blind. From my own experience, I can tell you it is far easier to close a rehabitant case placing him in some sheltered employment or some State or private, charity-operated program than it is to place him in really gainful employment. The blind want real jobs and self-support. Sheltered shops and agency programs are not the answer. Agency rehabilitation people make records for closures handling cataract cases, eye surgery, auto accidents. These are quick and easy and avoid the tough work of finding real employment for totally blind persons. Organizations of the blind value rehabilitation services not by official records, but by the number of their members who gain self-support and freedom from public assistance.

Op

Under these conditions as I see it, some officers and employees of agencies for the blind are bound to oppose organization of the blind. Opposing such organization, some will use the authority of their positions to prevent or interfere with organization unless there are regulations against this sort of interference. posing organization of the blind, some will fail to consult and cooperate with organizations of the blind unless the regulations governing these programs are made to provide for such consultation in a regular and systematic way.

In Florida, I know firsthand that we need passage of the bills before this committee as early as possible.

Mr. THOMPSON. My name is Ralph L. Thompson. I am from Tampa, Fla.

I have been blind since I was 6 years old and I was educated in the Perkins School for the Blind.

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I went to Harvard College, the Harvard University School of Education, received my degrees from there, and I became a teacher and taught for 5 years.

I worked for the Florida State Rehabilitation Service for the Blind for almost 11 years. At present I am in the property management business, an independent business of my own.

There have been many instances in Florida of interference and threats and so on, just as you heard from these other States this morning. I cannot go through them all at this time, I am sure, because of our shortage of time, but when I first became active in the Florida Federation of the Blind, which was organized in 1952, I worked for the State agency for the blind. I guess I am a peculiar individual, because I simply feel that organization is a way of American life, and I felt that rehabilitation of blind people really was just not complete until they took a part as citizens in their own organization.

When it became possible for us to organize the Florida Federation of the Blind, I and one other blind person who had worked for the State agency went to the director and told him that we felt that it would be wrong for us not to take a part in this organization.

He said he had no objection at all and that we could go ahead and participate in it. That was in 1953.

But, naturally, as soon as the independent blind of Florida became organized, they began saying things and doing things that were done without the prior approval or sanction of the State agency and this, of course, put me in a ticklish position.

The council personnel first became annoyed and became sort of hostile toward us, and then became outright belligerent toward us, and, actually, the officers and employees of the council for the blind were encouraged to recommend to clients that they should have nothing to do with the federation of the blind because it was not the proper kind of organization for anyone who hoped to get service.

Now, this gives you an idea of some of the things you can document in relation to threats and fears, that the council for the blind was able to instill in blind people in Florida.

In 1956, in October, the Florida Council for the Blind issued a memorandum to all the vending-stand managers-you have already heard how vending-stand managers are really dependent for their bread and butter on many of these State agencies, so I do not mean to go into that. We have the same situation in Florida.

This was a 3-page mimeographed document in which all stops were pulled out practically, in condemning the National Federation. of the Blind.

I think it ended up with a statement such as:

The National Federation of the Blind, because of certain legislation which it had promoted in Congress, and which had been passed by Congress, was out to hurt the blind and not to help them.

also, it stated:

The blind people should not have anything to do with the National Federation of the Blind and the Florida Federation of the Blind, its affiliate.

Mrs. GREEN. I am sorry, Mr. Thompson, but I am going to have to interrupt because we have this conference on the floor and all of the Members are supposed to get over on the floor and should have been over there 8 minutes ago.

I am sorry I am going to have to cut you off. Your statement will be made a part of the record and we will read it with interest.

The subcommittee will meet on Friday, March 13, at 10 o'clock and at that time representatives of the foundation for the blind, and the American Association of Workers for the Blind, and the Blinded Veterans' Association, and other groups, will meet.

The room has not yet been determined where the meeting will be held, but I am sure that a phone call to this committee will let you know the place for the meeting.

Mr. THOMPSON. There will be no chance of my answering questions in relation to this?

Mrs. GREEN. At the present time I am sorry, Mr. Thompson, but we must get over to the floor, and I do regret this, Mr. Thompson. Mr. THOMPSON. Well, you have given us more of a hearing than our State agency did, anyway.

Mr. DANIELS. I might recommend, if you desire to supplement the statement already appearing in the record, I would suggest to the committee that you have the privilege of doing so later.

Mrs. GREEN. Without any objection, it is so ordered.

Mr. THOMPSON. Yes. I think that some of your questioning helps bring these things out, and I did have a few things in mind that I wanted to bring to your attention.

Mrs. GREEN. I am sure that I speak for all the members of the subcommittee in expressing our thanks to you people who have come, some from great distances, to appear before the committee.

I know for my own part I have a great deal more information, and certainly a great deal more understanding of some of the problems. Again, speaking only for myself, I would certainly believe that blind people should have the right to organize both at State level and at National level. I am not sure yet whether Federal legislation is going to make absolutely certain that this can be done, but the committee will take your statements and your testimony, and give it careful study, and hope that we can come up with a bill that will meet the needs of all the people.

The meeting is adjourned.

(Whereupon, at 12: 10 p.m., the subcommittee recessed until Friday morning, March 13, at 10 a.m.)