under the item "Support of Indians and administration of Indian property." In the first place, it is obviously necessary that sufficient personnel be available during the next fiscal year to close the purchases of land for which Treasury funds have heretofore been provided and those which are being negotiated this fiscal year under the authority in the current appropriation act to incur obligation, not exceeding a total of $300,000, in advance of appropriations. It is estimated that transactions falling within these two classes will involve an expenditure of approximately $600,000. There will be urgent need also for the services of experienced employees to plan and negotiate the purchase of lands for which tribal funds have been made available. After June 30, 1940, at least $1,270,000 of such funds will be subject to expenditure for the acquisition of land on eight reservations. An additional sum of $90,000 will be available for land purchases on three other reservations if estimates shown elsewhere in the justifications are allowed by the committee. An indefinite sum may also be expended from the trust funds of the Pueblo Indians of New Mexico under the acts of June 7, 1924 (43 Stat. 636) and May 31, 1933 (48 Stat. 109).

Not only are the employees whose salaries are now being paid from the landacquisition appropriation engaged in the work of purchasing land, but a considerable portion of their time is spent in handling exchanges of lands. On most of the allotted reservations large areas have passed out of Indian ownership and, as a consequence, the remaining Indian lands are so interspersed with white-owned lands that they cannot be depended upon by their owners as the sole source of their livelihood. This situation is further complicated by the fact that much of the allotted land is held by the heirs of the original allottees. These heirs are so numerous in many cases that it is impossible for them to reach an agreement as to the use of the land. A strenuous effort is being made to eliminate the checkerboarded areas as well as these fractionated interests by effecting exchanges between Indians and non-Indians, between individual Indians, and between the tribes and their individual members in order to make available in economic units as much land as possible for Indian use.

There will be a continuing need for experienced personnel to handle land acquisitions and exchanges, as well as to develop information relating to land use, locations, descriptions, valuations, classification, production, etc. Without such personnel, the Service will be severely handicapped in carrying forward the program to provide a sufficient land base for Indian needs. It is urgently recommended that the proposed transfers be approved in order that the following nucleus organization may be retained for this work:

The foregoing organization will provide 4 fewer positions in the Washington office and 17 less positions in the field than are established at this time. These reductions will result in a saving of $48,820 in salaries and of approximately $7,000 in expenses, or a total saving of $56,820.

211881-40-pt. 2

ITEMS OF INCREASE IN ESTIMATE

REALLOCATIONS

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. I notice that you have an item of $2,120 for reallocations. What are those reallocations under the Office of the Commissioner?

Mr. COLLIER. That comes under salaries.

Mr. GREENWOOD. That amount represents an increase in salaries as a result of the reallocation of positions, because of increased duties and responsibilities.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Is that new money?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Then, under a ruling of the full Committee on Appropriations that item cannot be included in this bill, as no new money for increases in salaries can be allowed.

ADMINISTRATIVE PROMOTIONS

Mr. GREENWOOD. The second item of increase is $8,410 for administrative promotions.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Is that new money?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir. But, Mr. Chairman, going back to the item for reallocations

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma (interposing). You did not mean that was new money. Is that money available?

Mr. GREENWOOD. It is money that we are paying out at the present time as a result of reallocations made by the Civil Service Commission. Until it is appropriated, we must keep positions vacant in order to make the necessary amount available.

ADDITIONAL CLERKS FOR FISCAL DIVISION

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. The next increase is $3,240 for the Fiscal Division.

Mr. GREENWOOD. We are asking $3,240 for two additional positions in the Fiscal Division-one clerk in grade CAF-4, at $1,800, and one junior clerk-stenographer in grade CAF-2, at $1,440. The position of clerk is required for the examination of transportation bills. We are far behind in the examination of those bills, and the railroads are very much disturbed by reason of the fact that we are not able to pay our bills. Our situation in that respect is becoming increasingly worse, and we need to employ additional

assistance.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. This is a real urgent need?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir. We have 4,000 bills on hand unpaid. We handle about 13,000 bills a year. Then, we need some stenographic help, in addition to the clerical help, to expedite the handling of those bills. We feel that this item represents an attempt to meet a real emergency.

ADDITIONAL CLERK FOR MISCELLANEOUS SECTION

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. The next increase is $1,800 for the Miscellaneous Section.

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir; that is to provide one clerk for the Miscellaneous Section. That section, as the name implies, is a catchall section. It handles all matters that do not come specifically under any one of the other divisions. There are only nine employees in that section at the present time, and one of them is an emergency employee. The volume of work is just too much for them to keep it current. The section is about 1 month behind at the present time in the handling of correspondence. It handles all matters related to law and order on Indian reservations, all questions relating to the disbursement of individual Indian moneys, the making of per capita payments, the handling of law and order codes for Indian tribes, the claims of Indians and others for personal and property damages, and numerous other miscellaneous matters.

ADDITIONAL CLERK FOR PERSONNEL DIVISION

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. What about the increase of $1,620 for the Personnel Division?

Mr. GREENWOOD. There we are asking for one additional clerk at $1,620. That division handles the work incident to the evaluation of quarters which is now under way. We are attempting to evaluate approximately 8,000 sets of quarters in the States, and 200 sets in Alaska, with a view to making a more equitable charge for quarters furnished employees. That has entailed a considerable amount of work not only in the field, but also in the Washington office, to establish the records of the evaluation work. It will be necessary to maintain those records, and to change them from time to time as the evaluations of the quarters change. The present personnel cannot handle the volume of work that has arisen as a result of this evaluation of quarters.

TRANSFER OF EMPLOYEES PAID FROM APPROPRIATION FOR ACQUISITION OF LANDS

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. The next item is $18,160, on account of transfer from acquisition of lands for Indian tribes.

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir; this provides for 8 existing positions in the Washington office.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Those employees were provided for a special program of land purchases?

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Why should they now be merged into the permanent roll?

Mr. GREENWOOD. I think Commissioner Collier has already brought out the fact that in the next fiscal year we will have almost $2,000,000 of tribal funds available for the acquisition of land. We will also have numerous purchases, or options that have been accepted in the past, to close. We have this year a contractual authority of $300,000 in the appropriation act, and will have about $300,000 worth of land that we cannot pay for until next year. As the Commissioner pointed out, there is an urgent need for a permanent organization to handle the land exchanges that are being carried on under the Indian Reorganization Act.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. But you realize, I am sure, that if these employees are put on the permanent roll, they will be there permanently.

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir; that is what we are proposing. We feel that a permanent organization is justified.

Mr. LEAVY. There would be no justification for it after you once acquire all the available lands.

Mr. COLLIER. A part of the job is consolidation, which will continue for years and years. There are great areas of Indian lands in such a condition that they are almost useless because they are so scattered. Mr. LEAVY. What will cause the program to be one of such great duration?

Mr. COLLIER. The only way you can achieve the consolidation of lands through exchange is on a voluntary basis. It must be worked out, and it is very complicated work. It must be with the consent of the members of the tribes and of the owning individuals. There are hordes of them involved. Going back to the Reorganization Act. it originally provided that we could act simply in the status of guardian in making the consolidations, provided that in no case were we to diminish the value, but that was knocked out of the act. and the act merely gave authority for them to do it voluntarily. That makes an enormous amount of work.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. Do you mean that the act has language in it providing that you shall in no case diminish the value?

Mr. COLLIER. That was originally in the act, so we could go ahead and make consolidations on condition that we did not diminish the equitable value to the Indian, or on condition that the Indian did not lose anything. Under the terms of the act, as originally proposed, we could proceed rather rapidly, but now we have to proceed by negotiations with thousands of individuals, and it is really an uneconomical method of land acquisition.

Mr. CROSTHWAIT. These special employees referred to have been made permanent employees on the land-acquisition roll. The recommendation at this time is that this part of that permanent force, which will be quite reduced from what has been heretofore carried, be transferred from the land-acquisition roll to this appropriation; so that, in effect, we will have a reduction in the total force of some 17 employees, rather than an increase.

Mr. GREENWOOD. The total decrease will be 21 positions. This personnel is being paid from another appropriation. What we are proposing to do is to transfer them from the other appropriation to this appropriation. While it shows an increase here

Mr. COLLIER (interposing). There is a cutting down of the other appropriation.

Mr. CARTER. This would show an increase.

Mr. GREENWOOD. Not in the total number of positions; these positions that we propose to transfer to this appropriation are transferred from the land-acquisition appropriation. It will increase the number under this appropriation, but it will decrease the number under the other appropriation.

Mr. CROSTHWAIT. There will be a net decrease in the positions for the Indian Service, represented by the difference between what we are carrying now and what we propose to carry in 1941.

Mr. JOHNSON of Oklahoma. How much decrease will there be? Mr. GREENWOOD. Twenty-one positions will be dropped. It will involve a saving of about $56,800.

Mr. LEAVY. I am sure that none of us would object to the saving. Mr. CROSTHWAIT. We do not want to give the impression that this is an entirely new group. It is a residue being transferred, and we think that residue would be the minimum required to carry on the work that is left.

NUMBER OF ADDITIONAL EMPLOYEES REQUESTED

Mr. CARTER. May I ask this: Inasmuch as you did not receive from the Bureau of the Budget your entire request, would not that have some bearing upon the necessity of creating these additional positions? You propose to create here positions requiring an increase of $35,350.

Mr. GREENWOOD. We are not actually creating new personnel.

Mr. CARTER. There are some additional positions involved in this increase of $35,350.

Mr. GREENWOOD. The actual number of new positions under the estimate is only four. These other positions are not under the landacquisition item that we have been discussing. They are for the Fiscal Division, for the Miscellaneous Section, and for the Personnel Division.

Mr. CARTER. Regardless of where they are, I will ask the same question: What is the necessity for four additional positions carried here in view of the fact that you did not receive from the Budget Bureau the funds you anticipated you would receive? You were cut down very substantially.

Mr. GREENWOOD. We have been understaffed all along.

Mr. CARTER. Mr. Collier discussed this matter. He stated that the estimate was $4,000,000 less than the appropriation last year. In view of the fact, why do you need more people to administer the office?

Mr. GREENWOOD. You will find, as we go through the estimates, that the reductions Mr. Collier spoke of will involve some decreases in personnel in connection with the particular items reduced. This appropriation is made to cover the salaries of employees in the Washington office who handle all the administrative work. We have been undermanned, and the Bureau of the Budget has recognized that we were undermanned and has allowed these four additional positions. These positions are required despite the fact that we have been cut. The reductions have been made mainly in the land and construction appropriations, which means that we will have to reduce the personnel engaged in those two classes of work.

Mr. SHEPPARD. In other words, they apply the entire reduction to the original request, and there were a certain number of different operations of the Bureau where cuts could be made. These additional positions were brought in, and indicated as necessary by the Bureau of the Budget.

Mr. GREENWOOD. Yes, sir. They allowed some increases in certain items, but they are offset by decreases in others, the net decrease being $3,761,000.

Mr. COLLIER. If you will compare the figures of other departments, showing what their overhead is, or will compare the overhead figures of other comparable agencies with our figures, you will see how much undermanned we are. The overhead of the Indian