-that the mantles would last as well as in ordinary incandescent lighting. He could not quite believe this; and he gathered from what the author said in his paper that it was not so. But, working at high efficiency, if the mantles lasted 200 hours, as indicated in the paper, he should be very well satisfied. In regard to intensified lighting for street purposes, he was afraid they would have to get their friends to add a few thousand candle power to the burners, even before they could take the cost mentioned, of 21d. per 1300-candle power lamp per hour, because they would find many electric companies were supplying 2000-candle power lamps for that figure, or rather what they called 2000candle power lamps, though they were not. The little blowing arrangement which the author had introduced to them was very admirable. Having a bye-pass enabled the difficulty to be overcome (which would naturally be felt where the blower was kept running by machinery which varied in speed) of the pressure fluctuating too much; and in a place like the Arsenal, where there was plenty of machinery, something of the sort would be very useful. At present, he (Mr. Botley) was going to use water power; and he was hoping to have an installation of 6000-candle power, which promised to be very successful.

Mr. H. H. JONES (Wandsworth) was quite sure that everyone in the room would agree with this: That the question of incandescent lighting was of the most vital importance for gas undertakings not only for street lighting, but for domestic lighting. It was their one lever in these days against the competition of the electric light; and the lever, so far as he had been able to use it, had been in the question of cost. These high-pressure systems, of which there were now several, were, in the first instance, confined to places like stations (he believed the Great Central Station was one of the first), open spaces, big factories, and other places where it was possible to lay a duplicate system of mains, and have a pressure raiser. They were also within measurable distance of seeing what they could do with the ScottSnell lantern, which was self-contained. But they had to look at the question from the economical point of view. Taking, for instance, his own district. They were very go-ahead with incandescent lamps. One of his parishes-Putney-he believed was the first in the County of London to entirely adopt incandescent lighting; and in Wandsworth they were advancing very fast. The parish were converting the rest of their lamps in instalments each half year, paying for the lanterns, burners, &c., out of revenue or the ordinary lighting rate; and, employing a No. 4 Kern burner, now that the price of gas was 2s. 6d. per 1000

cubic feet, the cost was practically the same as if the ordinary 5-feet flat-flame burner was used-the cost including the price of the mantles and the labour in fixing them. This last worked out at something like an average of 38. per lamp per annum. The consumption of the mantles averaged nearly six on their 4300-hour lighting table. If, however, they were going to bring the mantles down to the average of 200 hours mentioned in the paper, instead of what his number worked out to, they would add tremendously to the cost. Then, again, he took it that these high-power lamps (which could only compete with electric arc lights) would only answer for central situations-such as refuges, crossings, and big open spaces; and, this being the case, they would have to wait a good long time before they saw any universal introduction of them. Of course, in a big works where machinery was running, and where the necessary power was easily obtainable, the high-pressure system would have advantages that it would not have in other places. Therefore he thought that, for general purposes, they wanted a much greater development-a greater pulling together, as it were-in regard to the introduction of the ordinary incandescent gas-burners, which had to compete (both indoors and out) with the incandescent electric light, and which gave all the light that people wanted in the streets. Altogether it seemed to him the opening for these very big lights was restricted.

Mr. W. H. Y. WEBBER (London) said, from what he had seen of the high-pressure system in operation up to the present time, it was bound to come, and he thought it would come very fast. It seemed to him that the objections to distributing gas at a much higher pressure than had hitherto been customary were largely of a hypothetical nature. There were such things as reducing-valves; and the problem, after all, was nothing near so difficult as Pintsch's people had to solve in the lighting of railway trains. It was certainly not so difficult as the natural gas people had to solve in the States, where they piped gas away for scores, and even hundreds, of miles, at somewhere as high as 400 lbs. per square inch. One of the gentlemen who did this was telling him only the other day that, when they decided to go into the question of high-pressure gas distribution for the particular purpose of lighting an outlying village through a 3-inch pipe, they found a diminishing governor quite ready to their hand. This was really the only thing they wanted to go straight away; and, with the same system, they could work the highpressure street-lamps, from this somewhat startling pressure of 54 inches, down to the normal high-pressure average of about

8 to 9 inches. The whole thing opened up the very widest horizon, and the brightest promise for the gas industry. He did hope that no mere superstition about the dangers of working at high pressure, or anything of that kind, would be allowed to stand in the way of the fullest advantage being taken of the mechanical aids to improve gas lighting which the industry now possessed.

The CHAIRMAN, in closing the discussion, said he did not think there could be doubt in the minds of any of the members that this system of high-pressure lighting was going to be of very material benefit to the gas industry in the future. The electric light had already found that it had had a considerable set-back; and he believed that the improved incandescent gas-light which this high-pressure system gave them would be instrumental to a large extent in his district in checking the advance of electricity -in fact, he might say of nipping it in the bud..

Mr. ONSLOW, replying to the discussion, said, with regard to the pressure at which he worked, he had been told-and it had been impressed upon him by people-not to go beyond 8 inches for incandescent lighting. To this his answer was that, if a mantle maker and a gas-burner maker would supply him with a mantle and a burner to take 180 inches, he was quite prepared to work at that pressure. He liked to have the idea before him that he had got to 54 inches, and that there was a possibility of going higher, and not confining himself to the low pressure of 8 inches. He did not see why, if mantles could only be made strong enough to suit higher pressures, an incandescent burner should not easily give 1500 and 2000 candle power. Take a No. 7 Kern burner and mantle, if they put 54 inches on them, the mantle was blown away; it was destroyed at once. This, however, was the fault of the mantle, not of the burner. Could not, he asked, a mantle be made to suit the burner ? Mantles were made to suit the No. burner; but the makers did not seem inclined to try to suit the No. 7. The ordinary mantles were 70-cotton; and they had 30-cotton ones for high pressure. If the makers would double and strengthen them, so that the pressure could be increased, there was no end to the future of the high-pressure system. There were several other matters he should have liked to touch upon; but he would confine himself to only one. In his own case, he had to light as well as to make gas, and he had also to be economical. Though his make of gas was very large, and there were some 25,000 men who had to have light, they had to have it economically. He had to consider the question as to the economical use of some

350 million cubic feet of gas which they made at the Arsenal; and therefore it was a vital question, not only for himself, but for others, whether they could not increase the illuminating power and reduce the cost.

Mr. WEBBER asked to be allowed to supplement his previous remarks with the observation that there was not the slightest fear that a mantle would not stand all the blast they could put upon it. Anyone who had seen the process of firing ordinary incandescent mantles as they were formed with a high-pressure blast of gas and air would bear him out. They were raised by this means to a degree of incandescence so dazzling that the workmen had to use a dark glass lens to look at them. The way in which these comparatively fragile mantles (simply suspended from the top) would stand these high blasts was almost a complete proof that mantles could be made to stand almost anything they liked to put on them in the way of a blast.

A VOTE OF THANKS.

The CHAIRMAN said the most hearty vote of thanks was due to the authors of the three papers. The Association had had a record meeting, and a full one, with interesting discussions. He thought the large attendance was probably due to the fact that the members knew the papers were to be of special interest. Therefore, for this successful meeting, they had to thank the gentlemen who had kindly prepared these contributions to their proceedings.

Mr. PERCY GRIFFITH, in seconding the motion, also remarked upon the value and interest of the papers.

The motion was unanimously passed.

Tea was then served; and this made a pleasant conclusion to a most successful meeting.

MANCHESTER INSTITUTION.

QUARTERLY MEETING, NOV. 24.

This Meeting was held at Southport-Mr. T. N. RITSON, Assoc.M.Inst.C.E., of Kendal, in the chair. There was a good attendance.

On arriving at Southport, the party were conveyed by electric tram to the gas-works, where, under the guidance of Mr. John Booth, the Engineer, the Chairman (Mr. Trounson), and other members of the Gas Committee, a thorough inspection of the buildings and plant was made; special interest being taken in the various enriching processes which have been adopted. Leaving the gas-works the members proceeded to the Victoria Hotel, where they were entertained to luncheon by the Mayor (Dr. Isherwood) and Gas Committee.

The MAYOR expressed his pleasure, on behalf of the Corporation and the Gas Committee, in welcoming the Institution to Southport. The members were all engaged in an interesting and useful work.

Mr. TROUNSON, in proposing prosperity to the Institution, ob. served that he gave them a hearty welcome, both on behalf of his Committee, and on personal grounds, as the present meeting had enabled him to renew acquaintanceship with many of the members whom he had met in London in connection with the annual meeting of the Gas Institute. He found the gas engineers at various works always very ready to communicate anything he wished to know, either of a technical or a commercial character. Such meetings as those of the Institution could not fail to tend greatly to the advantage both of themselves and the estates they represented. It was gratifying to know that, in spite of many competitors which had entered the field in recent times, gas had held its own, and proved the most useful and economical form of artificial lighting, while also showing capabilities of employ. ment for motive power which not very long ago were undreamt of. He thought this branch of the industry had not yet reached the development which its merits demanded. No doubt the competition of electricity had proved a splendid tonic to the gas