Mr. KOCEL. The honest answer that I give you is that I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment and refuse to answer that question, and no inference of guilt should be drawn from the answer I give. Mr. CLARDY. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. Mr. SCHERER. How do you think we can get no inference from your conduct here? (At this point Mr. Kocel conferred with Mr. Simmons.) Mr. CLARDY. Do you have any further questions, Mr. Tavenner? Mr. TAVENNER. Yes, sir. Mr. KOCEL. I started to read the statement by Judge Hincks of the circuit court of appeals on that matter. I don't see why I can't read it. If this committee is going to be fair, let us have this statement read by myself. Mr. CLARDY. Witness, may I point out to you, if you cooperate and answer questions rather than refusing, we would be most happy to permit you to read statements that you care to make, but no witness (At this point Mr. Kocel conferred with Mr. Simmons.) Mr. CLARDY (continuing). Who does not cooperate with the committee will ever be permitted that privilege. Mr. KOCEL. Mr. Clardy, isn't this the law? Isn't this the law? Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Kocel, the committee is informed that at the time of the issuance of the warrant of arrest for deportation of Mr. Henry Podolski that the Communist Party as an organization took action for the purpose of arresting those proceedings or preparing for the defense of Mr. Podolski. Mr. KOCEL. Mr. Who? Mr. TAVENNER. Isn't that his name, Podolski? Excuse my pronunciation. Mr. KOCEL. I consider that a slur against Polish-Americans when you don't take the trouble to pronounce correctly a name like that— Podolski. Mr. CLARDY. Witness, may I point out that I have a name that is probably more mispronounced than anyone in this room today. You heard a witness yesterday, if you were here, who made the mistake that is commonly made and put a "Mc"-because I apparently look like one-ahead of my name. You shouldn't take offense when people mispronounce your name. Mr. KOCEL. I think they should take the trouble to find out. Mr. CLARDY. You should know, sir, that we do not all have the benefit of knowing the background of everyone on this great planet of ours, and it is impossible to know Mr. KOCEL. Polish-Americans are a sizable minority group in the United States of America, very sizable. Mr. CLARDY. And one of the best. Mr. KOCEL. You're darned right, they are the best patriotic citizens of America. Mr. CLARDY. In the world. But you do not have that honor based on your performance here today. Mr. KOCEL. That is what you think. Mr. CLARDY. Proceed, Mr. Tavenner. Mr. TAVENNER. What knowledge do you have, if any, of the activities of the Communist Party in that regard? Mr. KOCEL. I refuse to answer, giving the same reasons as I have given before on many, many occasions. Mr. TAVENNER. Were you acquainted at any time with a person by the name of Steve Nelson? Mr. KOCEL. I refuse to answer, same reasons. Mr. TAVENNER. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? Mr. KOCEL. Same reason, same answer. Mr. TAVENNER. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. CLARDY. Do you have any questions, Mr. Scherer? Mr. SCHERER. No. Mr. CLARDY. I have just one question: Have you at any time, including the present, ever been a member of any organization devoted to the overthrow and destruction of this Government of ours through the use of force and violence? (At this point Mr. Kocel conferred with Mr. Simmons.) Mr. KOCEL. I think enough taxpayers' money has been wasted. I refuse to answer that question. I invoke my rights under the fifth amendment and refuse to answer it. Mr. CLARDY. The witness is excused. All witnesses in the hearing room who have been subpenaed to appear either yesterday or today or tomorrow will present themselves here at 9:30 tomorrow morning. The proceeding will be adjourned at this time until 9:30 a. m. tomorrow morning. (Whereupon, at 4:40 p. m., the hearing was recessed until 9:30 a. m., Wednesday, May 5, 1954.) |