DEC. 21, 1790.]

Militia.

he would move for their reduction, and gave his reasons fully. It was contrary to the Constitution, he also observed, to lay a tax upon certain classes of citizens; not being consonant with the principles of justice to make those conscientiously scrupulous of bearing arms pay for not acting against the voice of their conscience. This, he said, was called the land of liberty, in it, we boasted, that no one suffered on account of his conscientious scruples, and yet we are going to make a respectable class of citizens pay for a right to a free exercise of their religious principles; it was contrary to the Constitution; it was contrary to that sound policy which ought to direct the House in establishing the militia.

Mr. JACKSON said, he certainly should oppose the principle started by the gentleman last up. Who are to know, he asked, what persons were really conscientiously scrupulous? There is no tribunal erected to make them swear to their scruples. If the principle were adopted, he conceived very few would be found, if their own word was to be taken, not conscientiously scrupulous. There were other sects, he said, besides the Quakers averse to bearing arms. If the principle be adopted of requiring no compensation from the exempted, it will lay the axe to the root of the militia, and, in his opinion, the bill might as well be postponed altogether. He did not choose to enter into the subject fully at this time; he would wait until the bill came before the House.

The seventeenth section, providing inspectors of the militia, was read.

Mr. SENEY said, Maryland, he thought, should have two inspectors instead of one, as provided by the section. That State, he observed, was divided by a wide and sometimes dangerous bay, which could not at all times be crossed. Two inspectors were agreed to for Maryland, one to reside on the Eastern, and one on the Western shore.

Mr. LAWRENCE saw an impropriety in providing the same allowance for all the inspectors without regard to the quantum of duty to be performed. The duty, he observed, of an inspector in the State of Rhode Island could not be near so great as that of the inspector in the State of New York. He moved that their different salaries be fixed and specified in the bill.

It was agreed; and the blanks left to be filled up with such sums as shall be deemed proper when the House shall take that part of the bill into consideration.

[H. OF R.

himself in his office in conformity to the laws passed by the States.

Mr. SMITH moved that that clause which leaves the appointment of this officer to the President be struck out, and that it only be specified that such an officer be appointed.

Mr. BOUDINOT considered this officer as appointed to assist the President. It was necessary that the commander-in-chief should be acquainted with the state of the militia throughout the Continent; it was impossible for him to gather this information without assistance; the officer was appointed for that purpose; he should be considered as a Continental officer, and as such was to be paid by the General Go

vernment.

Mr. SMITH said, if his motion prevailed of having this officer appointed by the States he would also move that his salary be paid by them. He was a militia officer and as such was in the appointment of the States.

Mr. LAWRENCE wished the clause struck out, and the duty of inspector left to be performed by the adjutant general. In New York this is the case.

Mr. BOUDINOT said, he thought the duty too great, and the salary such an officer would require more than the States would consent to give; the officer would not be appointed, and the President could not receive the necessary information. The inspector was not a militia officer, but appointed to collect the information the President should want, for the benefit of the Union.

Mr. FITZSIMONS gave it as his opinion that the officer should be under the appointment of the President.

Mr. SHERMAN said, there appeared to be a distrust of this inspector, unless appointed by the President; he thought there could be no just foundation for entertaining this opinion, if he should be appointed by the States. He was certainly appointed for the good of the Union; but if the several States did not pay his salary, the expense would in the end devolve on the United States.

It was agreed to leave the appointment to the States.

Mr. STONE moved that the clause giving to inspectors the rank of lieutenant colonel be struck out. He observed, that since the appointment of those officers was left to the States, the House could not with propriety fix the rank.

Mr. WADSWORTH hoped it would not be struck out. He observed, that as the House had the power of organizing the militia, and Mr. SHERMAN was of opinion that some of were about determining that there should be the duties, by this section to devolve on in-inspectors, they could with the same propriety spectors, ought to be left to the States to exercise.

Their duty should be confined to superintending the exercise and manœuvres. Mr. BLOODWORTH was averse to appointing an officer to be directed by State laws. He should be appointed by the State.

Mr. WADSWORTH said, in his opinion, he ought to be a Continental officer, and conduct

say what rank those inspectors should hold. He was as much averse as any man to granting unnecessary titles; but where great trust was reposed, and severe duty required, there rank should also follow. These inspectors were placed in a very important station, which they could not properly fill without the weight of some military rank.

Mr. BLOODWORTH said, he moved the amendment, because he was fully persuaded that the United States had nothing to do with the exMr. BLOODWORTH hoped the additional sec-emptions heretofore usually made by the partition would not be adopted, it would be a dan-cular States. It is proper for Congress only gerous provision.

The House took up the report of the Committee of the whole of yesterday on the bill for establishing an uniform militia. The amend-of the General Government, such as the memments being read,

DEC. 22, 1790.]

Militia.

[H. OF R

but who are the militia? Such men, he pre-larged on the obligations which every man owes sumed, as are declared so to be by the laws of to society to afford his personal services to asthe particular States, and on this principle hesist and defend the community; protection and was led to suppose that the militia ought to service are reciprocal. Those who are exemptconsist of the whole body of citizens without ed ought to pay a full equivalent on every prinexception. If this construction be just, the ciple of justice and equity. He then adverted propriety of the motion is apparent. He did not to exemptions generally, and advocated those anticipate an abuse of the power of exemption of the members of Congress; but, with respect on the part of the States; he thought the period to all others, he was absolutely opposed to them; far distant when the United States would trust and said they were so numerous as to destroy their defence to mercenaries. He objected to the militia bill altogether. The consequence the numerous exemptions proposed to be made would be, we must resort to a standing force by the General Government, and observed that for the general defence. he feared great impositions and evasions would be practised in consequence of them; the power will be exercised by the States, and ought not to be by Congress.

Mr. VINING was opposed to giving the general power of making such exemptions as they please to the several States. The Legislature of the Union is competent to making such as Mr. BURKE said, no man was more in favor are necessary. He enlarged on the mischievof an efficient and competent militia than he ous consequences of delegating this power. It was; but the various exemptions contended for will, said he, destroy every appearance of uniare so many that he conceived the consequences formity; nor is there any danger that the memwould be subversive of the whole plan. Ob- bers of the House will abuse this power by unservations had been thrown out which he was due exemptions. With respect to the Quakers, sorry to hear, that except these exemptions he replied to some observations of Mr. JACKSON, took place, the bill would be lost. He then who had asked, what will become of our boasted mentioned the several classes proposed to be independence in case of the exemption of the exempted, by which the whole country would, Quakers? He asked, were there no Quakers in effect, be divided into two tribes; and the in the late war? He adverted to the conduct rich, the governors and rulers of the land of the first settlers of Pennsylvania, who were would be relieved from the burthen, while the Quakers; their peaceful principles were promechanics, the farmers, the laborers, the hard-ductive of the happiest consequences; and in working part of the community would be made to sustain the whole weight of the service in defending the country. He was opposed to exempting members of Congress; in the recess they may attend militia duty. It was agreeable to the practice of South Carolina; he had himself performed militia duty during the recess. He thought that all should equally be made to turn out in the ranks, high and low, rich and poor, old and young, and thus make the militia honorable. I know, said he, it is the policy of the day to make the militia odious; but I hope such policy will not be adopted by this House. He was not, however, opposed to all exemptions; he would exempt the people called Quakers, and all persons religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, stage-drivers, and instructors of youth; but their pupils, the students in colleges and seminaries of learning, should not be exempt; youth is the proper time to acquire military knowledge. He hoped that the House would not make two distinct tribes or classes of people. There ought to be no such distinctions in a free country.

this view their conduct had been an example, which, in proportion as mankind shall recede from the force of turbulent passions, will be more and more imitated. He, however, supposed that an equivalent might be assessed on these people without difficulty, and which, from their numbers, supposed to be one-twentieth part of the people, would amount to a sum sufficient to support a militia; at least, to furnish them with arms, drums, colors, &c.

Mr. LAWRENCE observed, that it appeared to him that the object of the motion is to revive a subject which has already been decided in the committee; he had not, however, altered his opinion, he still thought it would be impolitic, if not dangerous, to delegate a power which they can exercise themselves.

He adverted to the observations of Mr.GILES, that Congress cannot extend their privileges; and observed that the clause in the Constitution refers to the privileges of being exempt from arrest, that they might not be precluded from attending their duty in Congress; with respect to its being an extension of their privileges to Mr. JACKSON said, he was sorry that his ho- provide for their exemption, there cannot be norable friend was so determined to have two any force in this, as it is conceded that Contribes of people; but he set out with that reso- gress may designate the age of the militia; now lution, and now concludes with the same idea. if their ages are restricted from eighteen to He then adverted to the exemption of Qua- forty-five, it effectually exempts many of the kers, provided for in the bill. He said, that members of Congress; but this exemption from the operation of this privilege would be to make arrest is not the only privilege that members of the whole community turn Quakers; and in Congress possess; and he had no doubt of their this way it would establish the religion of that right in the present case to exempt themselves; denomination more effectually than any positive the expediency of the measure is sanctioned by law could any persuasion whatever. He en-the practice of every State in the Union,

Mr. BOUDINOT asked what is the object of the bill? It is to provide an uniform militia, competent to the defence of the country; it is not to take money out of the pockets of the people. He then adverted to the idea that was maintained by several gentlemen, that the militia ought to consist of every person in the United States, and said that this, so far from conducing to the formation of a national defence, would prove the reverse; for it would necessarily include persons religiously scrupulous of bearing arms, men in years not able to bear them, and a great variety of characters not suitable to bear them.

[DEC. 22, 1790.

turn Quakers. He did not believe that the citizens of the United States would hypocritically renounce their principles, their conscience, and their God, for the sake of enjoying the exemption.

Mr. SHERMAN seconded this motion. He said that persons conscientiously scrupulous of bearing arms could not be compelled to do it; for such persons will rather suffer death than commit moral evil; they may be punished, it is true, by fines and penalties, but whether this would be eligible or not remains to be determined. We, however, have the sense of these people on the subject. He suggested whether some expedient cannot be devised to operate as an indemnity, by excusing part of the militia from a poll tax, so as to equalize the exemption, if made gratuitous.

too much with the regulations of the several States. The present proposition, he thought, would come in more properly in the second section.

With respect to exemptions, he contended, that the right of Congress to make them is already conceded; for it is already agreed that the militia shall consist of persons of particular ages, consequently all under eighteen and above Mr. LIVERMORE said he disliked the whole forty-five are expressly exempted; the reverse amendment. He also disliked the bill on seveof this principle will give the States the abso-ral accounts, more particularly as it interfered lute control of the General Government. He then observed, that the amendment ought not to be adopted; because it would be throwing a burthen on others which Congress ought to bear themselves; because it will destroy every idea of uniformity; because it invests a power in the States to impose fines and penalties which may operate oppressively on many descriptions of persons; because it invests the States with a power to make partial exemptions, create invidious distinctions, and excite unwarrantable competitions among different classes and professions. He then adverted to the Quakers, and asked, what would become of our independence, if one thousand troops were to attack us, and we had an army of ten thousand Quakers to oppose them; what dependence can be had on men who are forced into the field? He had trusted that the rights of men were so well defined at this enlightened period, that the principles which had been advanced would not have been applied on this occasion. He entered into a defence of the exemptions generally provided for, and justified them on principles of justice and policy. He was sorry that the distinctions mentioned by the gentleman from South Carolina had been brought forward. He had no idea of different tribes or classes. The members of this House at the end of every two years revert to the mass of the people, and then become liable to bear their proportion of militia duty as well as their fellow-citizens.

Mr. MADISON moved to insert among the exemptions, persons conscientiously scrupulous of bearing arms. It is the glory of our country, said he, that a more sacred regard to the rights of mankind is preserved than has heretofore been known. The Quakers merit some attention on this delicate point, liberty of conscience. When they had it in their power to establish their religion by law they did not. He was disposed to make the exemption gratuitous, but supposed it impracticable. He replied to Mr. JACKSON's observations, that exempting such persons would induce the people generally to

Mr. JACKSON said, he was glad that the motion of the gentleman from Virginia had been brought forward; it might serve to ascertain the sentiment of the House on this important subject. He observed that, in his opinion, the gentleman had not argued with his usual ingenuity and knowledge of the human heart, in respect to the exemptions proposed in favor of the Quakers. It is too evident that mankind stand in greater dread of present evil than of future punishment. The influence of conscience is a weak defence against the powerful temptations of pecuniary advantages; and as he had been informed since he came to this city that one Quaker will convert ten men to Quakerism before ten of a different persuasion will convert one Quaker. With the assistance of this law the converts will be ten times as numerous. He conceived that the natural operation of it would be to destroy the whole militia bill. He insisted on their being liable to a penalty in lieu of personal service, and enlarged on the reasonableness of paying their proportion to the general defence. He replied to Mr. BouDINOT'S query respecting ten thousand Quakers; they would all run away, said he, and one thousand men in this case would subjugate the country.

Mr. GILES observed, that he was opposed to the exemption of the Quakers, and gave his reasons; protection and personal services result from society; they are due from every individual, and it is a violation of moral duty to withhold this personal service. He was in favor of exempting every man from doing that which his general conduct evinced was contrary to his conscience; but it cannot be said that it is against the conscience of a Quaker to hold and possess property; therefore every man who receives the protection of the laws ought to contribute his proportion to the