therefore, he trusted that the hon. Member (Mr. O'Sullivan) would withdraw his proposal. MR. O'SULLIVAN said, that if hon. Members would look at his Amendment, they would see that he did not want to give power to the tenant at all. All that he proposed was that the Court should allow the tenant to sell. THE O'DONOGHUE did not think the Prime Minister had given any reason worthy of the name against the Amendment of his hon. Friend. Far greater powers than were proposed to be conferred on the Court by the Amendment were already conferred by the Bill. Motion, by leave, withdrawn. MR. O'SULLIVAN: On condition that the Amendment of the hon. Member for Monaghan (Mr. Givan) will be discussed to-morrow, I will withdraw my Amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. SIR JOSEPH M KENNA, speaking from the landlords' point of view, would think the Amendment of the hon. Member for Limerick (Mr. O'Sullivan) infinitely less objectionable than that of the hon. Member for Monaghan (Mr. Givan), because, according to the former, the permission to sub-divide would only become operative in cases where the rent was over £100 a-year, and no ten-again To-morrow, at Two of the clock. ancy would be reduced below £30 ayear. The hon. Member for Monaghan (Mr. Givan), no doubt, was animated by the best intentions; but he proposed to sanction division to any extent the Court might allow. Let them take the decision on the Amendment of the hon. Member for Limerick, which, though it did. not so far recommend itself to the Committee would, he ventured to say, have a better chance of support than the other. MR. PARNELL: I wish to ask you, Mr. Chairman, as a point of Order, whether, if the Amendment of the hon. Member for Limerick is negatived, that of the hon. Member for Monaghan (Mr. Givan) can be moved afterwards? THE CHAIRMAN: I see nothing in the Amendment of the hon. Member for Monaghan that is not completely in Order. ALKALI, &c. WORKS REGULATION (In the Committee.) Clause 16 (Annual Report to Local Government Board). Amendment proposed, ings," and insert "the proceedings of himself In line 7, page 41, to leave out "his proceedand of the other inspectors under this Act."— (Mr. Dodson.) Question proposed, "That the words his proceedings' stand part of the Clause." MR. BIGGAR said, they had to meet at 2 o'clock to-morrow-within 12 hours from then-and, considering the time the Chairman had already been in the Chair, it was only reasonable that they should report Progress. He was opposed to legislating at that hour of the morning. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report ProBiggar.) gress, and ask leave to sit again.”— MR. A. M. SULLIVAN would appeal to the hon. Member (Mr. O'Sullivan) to withdraw his Amendment, as there was not much difference between the two, if the withdrawal of his Amendment would smooth the way to some reasonable understanding. There had been such unanimity on that (the Op-Mr. position) side of the House, that he had no doubt his hon. Friend would give way. There had been exhibited that night a feeling on the part of the Irish Representatives which any Cabinet Minister who ever ruled must, in some measure, defer to. He would ask his hon. Friend to withdraw his Amendment, though it seemed to him preferable to the other. MR. DODSON ventured to hope that the Committee would not accept the proposal of the hon. Member for Cavan. The Bill, as he had said before, was one in which a great deal of interest was felt on both sides of the House. There had been no objection taken to it throughout, except on points of detail; and those points, he thought, could be very rapidly disposed of if the hon. Member would allow them to proceed. MR. R. POWER said, he would suggest that Progress should be reported at 2 o'clock. EARL PERCY said, that the Bill had great interest for many English Members, if it had not for Irish ones, and it would be a great convenience to them to proceed with its consideration. MR. DODSON hoped the Bill might be got through before 2 o'clock; but he should be sorry to pledge himself to the exact moment. He trusted the hon. Member for Cavan would consent to withdraw his Motion. MR. BIGGAR was disposed to let the Committee proceed; but there was one clause which raised a very important principle-namely, that in respect to joint liability for the acts of a single person. That clause, he thought, could not be taken at that late hour. Motion, by leave, withdrawn. Question, "That the words 'his proceedings' stand part of the Clause," put, and negatived. Proposed words substituted. MR. DODSON proposed to add, at the end of the preceding Amendment, the words "who shall furnish him with a detailed account of the number of inspections of works in their districts." Amendment agreed to; words added. EARL PERCY proposed the further addition to the right hon. Gentleman's Amendment of the words "and the recorded escapes of acid gases in all such works." Amendment agreed to; words added. Clause, as amended, agreed to, and ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clauses 17 to 19, inclusive, agreed to. Clause 20 (Recovery of fines for of fences against Act in county court). MAJOR NOLAN proposed, as an Amendment, to omit all reference to Ireland, on the ground that, in many respects, the Bill was not applicable to Ireland, there being no manufactories in many parts of the country. MR. DODSON said, the Amendment did not properly arise on that clause. Mr. Dodson MAJOR NOLAN pointed out that the clause gave power to recover fines in Ireland. Such a stringent Bill was not required for Ireland, although in some parts of England, such as the Black Country, the escape of hydrochloric gas caused much mischief. He moved to omit from line 16 to line 20. Amendment proposed, In page 10, to leave out from the word "In." in line 16, to the word "bills" in line 20, both inclusive. (Major Nolan.) Question proposed, "That the words. proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause." MR. O'SHEA observed, that no satisfactory answer had been given to the proposal. MR. DODSON said, the answer was that in the first Alkali Act, which was in force at the present time, it was provided that in Ireland all penalties, except penalties against a special rule, might be recovered in the Civil Court at the instance of the Inspector. The and the clause only provided for the represent Bill was a Consolidation Bill, covery of fines in the same terms as in the Act which had been in force since 1863. MAJOR NOLAN believed this to be a more severe Bill than the Act of 1863. It was five or six times more severe as to the volume of gas escaping. MR. HEALY asked if the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Dodson) would be willing to exclude all towns in Ireland of under 50,000 inhabitants? The proposed regulations would crush all attempts at future manufactures. MR. DODSON said, the Bill was not intended to apply simply to populous places, for it was intended to protect crops and vegetation. It was introduced originally at the suggestion of residents near works, especially cultivators of land. He doubted how far the suggestion could be carried out; but if the hon. Member would wait for the Report, he would endeavour to ascertain how far that would be possible. MR. O'SHEA hoped the right hon. Gentleman would listen to the words of wisdom from the hon. Member for Wexford (Mr. Healy), and would see that the Irish Members desired to encourage manufactures in Ireland. The cultivators of land in Ireland had made no complaints of fumes from alkali works, for one reason, because there were no | alkali works there; and it would be time enough to restrict when there was something to restrict. There were, unfortunately, large tracts of land in Ireland on which nothing useful grew; and he wished the hon. Member for Swansea, or other great chemical manufacturers and smelters, to be given every encouragement to plant useful works in the midst of them. MR. ARTHUR ARNOLD wished hon. Members opposite, who said they had spoken words of wisdom, would speak words of mercy. There were places in Lancashire where people died through the fumes from alkali works getting into the water; and he thought hon. Members from Ireland might desire to protect life in that country as well as in England. DR. COMMINS said, that there were very few alkali works in Ireland; but there were some cement works, and chemical manure works, which were included in the Bill. There were also some small works, such as sulphuric acid works, which he did not think did much harm, but which would be interfered with and crushed by the Bill. Nobody in Ireland asked for or desired the Bill. MAJOR NOLAN approved of the suggestion of the hon. Member for Wexford (Mr. Healy), and said that if the right hon. Gentleman would insert a clause to that effect he should be content. The Irish Members were quite willing that the hon. Member for Salford (Mr. Arthur Arnold) should have what legislation he liked for Lancashire, if he would let them have what they wished. They had good air in Ireland; they wanted industries, and did not wish to be restricted by legislation, or to have their money wasted on Inspectors. This Bill was one of those unfortunate pieces of legislation in which the Government. started from a different point than the Irish Members, and asked them to work up to it. If the right hon. Gentleman would exclude Ireland from the Bill, except two or three large towns, he would withdraw any opposition. MR. CALLAN hoped the suggestion would be acceded to. They did not want England to protect them; they wanted to get some obnoxious industries into Ireland; and he hoped the wishes of the hon. Member for Salford (Mr. Arthur Arnold) and other English Members would not overweight the wishes of the Irish people. MR. HIBBERT said, if Ireland was excluded, there would be no legislation for Ireland at all. Ireland was now under the Acts in operation, and he did not see how they could go back from those Acts. The suggestion was not one to which the Government could accede off-hand, and, after all, the works in England were prepared and willing to be placed under the Bill. If they were under the Bill, and Ireland was not, great advantages would be given to Irish manufacturers. The Government were, of course, willing to do all they could to promote the industries of Ireland; but he thought it would be more practical for the hon. and gallant Member for Galway (Major Nolan) and the hon. Member for Wexford (Mr. Healy) to prepare some Amendment on Report, and let his (Mr. Hibbert's) right hon. Friend consider it. MAJOR NOLAN thought the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hibbert) had given up their case when he said the proposal would give great advantages to Ireland; but if they got a definite promise from the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Dodson) that all towns in Ireland of under 50,000 inhabitants should be left out he would withdraw his opposition. If not, he must press his Amendment to a division. MR. BIGGAR could not see how the proposal could be refused. The manure works in Belfast were very objectionable, and it was desirable that they should be removed; but some inducement must be given to the owners to move them. MR. DODSON said, he really could not off-hand undertake to give a definite promise. The proposal had been suddenly sprung upon him. MAJOR NOLAN said, it was made on the first night of considering the Bill. MR. DODSON replied, that on the first night the hon. and gallant Member raised the question whether Ireland should be excluded, and several Irish Members were strongly of opinion that it should be included. The hon. Member for Dublin (Mr. M. Brooks) certainly was one. No proposal was made for the exclusion of certain parts, and he could not be expected to accede to this proposal on the spur of the moment without having an opportunity of con- | proposed should be made in the clause. sidering it. If the hon. and gallant He would like to hear from the right Member would put an Amendment on the Paper for Report he would give a fair and impartial consideration to it. MR. CALLAN said, that, in order to insure due consideration of the matter, he would move that Progress be reported. hon. Gentleman (Mr. Dodson) whether he would agree to excuse the rest of Ireland with the exception of Belfast and Dublin and Cork. The only argument he had heard at all against such a proceeding was that which was offered by the right hon. Gentleman himselfMotion made, and Question proposed, namely, that the trade of England would "That the Chairman do report Pro-be unfairly handicapped by the advangress, and ask leave to sit again."(Mr. Callan.) MR. DODSON hoped the Committee might be allowed to proceed, and not be asked to suspend Progress on account of this proposal, which was now made for the first time. It was unreasonable to ask those who made the proposal to put it into proper shape to be considered on Report. He hoped the Motion to report Progress would be withdrawn. MR. HEALY said, he would admit that, technically speaking, the right hon. Gentleman was right in saying this proposal was new; but it was not new that the Irish Members had certain objections to the Bill, but the Government had done nothing to meet their views, and had tried to push the Bill through as hard as they could. They must bring up their objections when they could, whether they sprung them upon the Government or not; and he hoped this Amendment would bring the Government to see the importance of paying some regard to the wishes of the Irish Members. If the hon. Member for Louth (Mr. Callan) persisted with his Motion he should support him; but if the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Dodson) would give some definite promise he would suggest to his hon. Friend to withdraw the Motion. Perhaps a conference might take place between the right hon. Gentleman and the hon. and gallant Member (Major Nolan), so that the Bill might then be run through. SIR R. ASSHETON CROSS said, the clause merely provided for the recovery of the penalties. He suggested that the Amendment should be raised at its proper place, at the end of the 27th clause, and thus allow them to make progress. MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR said, it was evidently necessary, if it was proposed to bring the larger towns in Ireland under the provisions of the Bill, that some such Amendment as was now Mr. Dodson tage which the manufacturers in Ireland would derive from being excluded from the Bill. He had looked through the Bill to see what advantage would arise, and he failed to see in what way Irish manufacturers would gain an advantage. Unless there was a distinct proof between this and Report that the English manufacturers would be unfairly handicapped, it would not be too much to ask the right hon. Gentleman to agree to the limitation to the larger towns of Ireland. MR. DODSON suggested that they should be allowed to go through the Bill as it stood, and when they got to the Schedule report Progress. The hon. Gentleman could then still propose his Amendment in Committee. He (Mr. Dodson) could not be expected to give an answer in the matter off-hand; but he was quite ready to give it a fair consideration. MR. CALLAN trusted the Committee on the Bill would not be taken again before Monday week. MR. DODSON said, he had no objection to put the Committee down for the Monday after the Recess. MAJOR NOLAN asked leave to withdraw the Amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 21 (Further provisions as to recovery of fines in county court). On Motion of Mr. DILLWYN, Amendment made in page 10, line 31, by leaving out "ten," and inserting "twentyone." Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clause 22 (Discharge of owner on conviction of actual offender) agreed to. Clause 23 (Service of notices). On Motion of Mr. Donson, Amendment made in page 11, line 34, by leaving out from "or" to "owner" in line 37, and inserting "the owner or at his | able to pay, or the person who was most residence or works." Clause, as amended, agreed to. likely to submit. They ought to leave the persons who were injured to find out the offenders. MR. DODSON said, the Amendment they had just accepted had struck the Clause 24 (Complaint by sanitary authority in cases of nuisance). On Motion of Mr. DODSON, the follow-ground away from the feet of the hon. ing Amendments made-In page 12, line 17, leave out from "The " to " Act," in line 22, inclusive. In page 12, at end add "The expression sanitary authority' in this section includes as regards the Metropolis, except the City of London, any vestry or district board elected under The Metropolis Management Act, 1855,' also any Local Board of Health, not being an urban sanitary authority within the meaning of The Public Health Act, 1875,' and as regards the City of London shall mean the Commissioners of Sewers of the said city." Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clause 25 (Actions in case of contributory nuisance). MR. TENNANT moved, as an Amendment, in page 12, line 36, after "nuisance" to add "This clause shall not apply to any defendant who can produce a certificate from the chief inspector that in the works of such defendant the requirements of this Act have been complied with." MR. DODSON said, he would consent to accept the Amendment, on condition that the words" and were complied with when the nuisance arose" were added. Amendment to the said proposed Amendment agreed to. Amendment, as amended, agreed to. MR. DILLWYN considered the whole clause was of an objectionable character. DR. COMMINS said, the clause, as amended, was objectionable, inasmuch as it created a joint liability. In St. Helen's, for instance, there were a great many manufacturers, and it was utterly impossible to determine to what extent any one of them contributed to a nuisance. It might happen that the small and struggling manufacturer allowed the most noxious vapours, and the larger and richer manufacturer be called upon to stand the consequences. As a rule, when a joint liability was established, it happened that it was not the persons who created the nuisance who suffered, but the person who was best and learned Member for Roscommon (Dr. Commins). By the Amendment they had now agreed to, a manufacturer who complied with the requirements of the Act would be in a position to come into Court with a certificate of character and clear himself Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clause 26 (Interpretation of terms). On Motion of Mr. DODSON, Amendment made in page 12, line 42, by inserting "Noxious or offensive gas does not include sulphurous acid arising from the combustion of coal." Clause, as amended, agreed to. Clause 27 (Repeal of Alkali Acts). MAJOR NOLAN moved, as an Amendment, to add at end of Clause "In Ireland the penalties in this Act shall only apply in the County or City of Dublin and in towns of over 50,000 inhabitants." MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR thought it would be well if the right hon. Gentleman would now consent to report Progress; and he would accordingly make that Motion. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again.”—(Mr. Arthur O'Connor.) MR. DODSON said, the proposition was to go through the whole of the Bill them still in Committee, and when Comexcept the Schedule. That would leave mittee was again taken the hon. and gallant Gentleman (Major Nolan) could move his Amendment. Motion, by leave, withdrawn. MAJOR NOLAN asked leave to withdraw his Amendment. EARL PERCY said, there were many objections to the Amendment just proposed. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 28 (Saving as to general law) agreed to. |