While Massachusetts, with a population of one million, has an average representation of about five hundred, or ten times as large as the states above-named. Is there any necessity for this? Is there anything peculiar in the mannars, customs or wants of the people in this State which requires such an army of legislators to control them? Perhaps it may be said we are better governed-have better laws and purer legislation. Disparaging remarks have been thrown out here about the legislation of New York, but I think New York will compare favorably with Massachusetts in respect to her laws, legislation, schools, and public institutions, and public works of every description. Let gentlemen who make these remarks, travel in that State and examine and see whether their remarks are founded in justice.

Sir, if there was any one thing among the people whom I represent that was distinctly called for by this Convention, it was, that your House of Representatives should be reduced in numbers. I believe that was the sentiment of the people all over the State, yet here is a proposition to increase that House from fifty to one hundred members. Now, I ask gentlemen all around me, whether this is an improvement upon our present system of representation? If we cannot improve the present basis of representation as it now exists, why not let it alone? Let us allow it to remain where it is. I would suggest to gentlemen who advocate this proposition, that the people are not to vote upon it in the proportion marked out in this bill, but all the freemen in the Commonwealth are to vote upon it per capita, and I appeal to those gentlemen, to know whether they believe the people of the Commonwealth will sanction such a measure?

Now, Sir, we have had two extreme systems betore us. One called the District system, and the other called the Town system. The former was voted down by a large majority of this Committee, and I entirely coincide with that expres

[June 25th.

sion of opinion. But the town system as presented, will provide for so large a House as to make it a great evil in my opinion, and the small towns, as well as the large ones, must be willing to sacrifice something to remedy the evil. The grade established by the gentleman for Erving, (Mr. Griswold,) was a little too steep. The obstacles could not be surmounted. The proposition of the gentleman from Lowell, (Mr. Butler,) modifies the acclivity somewhat, but still the grade is too steep in my judgment. Now, why cannot some middle ground be adoptd? Why will not some gentleman bring in a proposition which will grade this at the proper angle? Why not raise the proposed limit to 1,560, where it is now? I believe that would reconcile more of the conflicting interests and command a larger vote of the people than any proposition which has yet been brought forward. Although the proposition now under consideration may be driven through the House, yet let gentlemen remember that our action is not final upon this subject. It seems to me impossible in the nature of things, that this proposition can ever receive the sanction of the people of Massachusetts. I hope, therefore, before gentlemen make up their minds to support this plan, that they will give these considerations their due weight. I am not prepared to offer an amendment myself, but I hope, before the proposition receives its final disposition, an amendment will be made, raising the grade up from 1,000 to where it is now, at 1,560, and then allow the other main features of the plan to remain where they are.

Mr. CHURCHILL, of Milton. I do not rise to oppose the proposition of the gentleman from Lowell, nor to commit myself explicitly, before the close of the argument upon that proposition, either one way or the other. I have been hoping, like the gentleman who has just taken his seat, (Mr. Waters,) that we should have some proposition brought forward which would meet the views of a larger proportion of the members of the Committee than this will, and of a larger portion than will any proposition which has yet been presented. I had hoped, and I still hope, that some proposition will be brought forward, raising the limit to some point which shall secure the advantages of equal representation to some extent, as the district system proposes to do, and at the same time secure to us the advantages of town representation. I would preserve the rights of the small towns, if it can be done without too flagrant injustice to any other portion of the Commonwealth. My opinion is, that the people of this Commonwealth will never sanction any proposition you may send forth to them which bears upon its face the evidence of injustice to any por

tion of the Commonwealth. The opposition which that consideration will give rise to, cannot be compensated for by any support you may gain from the portions of the Commonwealth which may be favored by it.

Sir, I do not believe the comparisons which have been drawn between the relative morality or intelligence of the city and country furnish a proper argument to be adduced in this Committee in support of this proposition, and especially when they come, as they do, from gentlemen representing the country. I was born and brought up in a country town. I have always lived in the country, and I have the honor to represent a country town here, but I believe there is about as much intelligence in the city as in the country. I believe there is about as much virtue in the city as in the country, and I am not in favor of granting to one any peculiar rights and privileges at the expense of the other. I am not willing to take away the rights of one portion of the Commonwealth for the purpose of securing special privileges to any other portion.

I do not think that the basis of political representation here is to be placed upon intelligence, virtue, or respectability. I never heard of any commonwealth which has its political institutions shaped entirely or chiefly upon such a basis. A proposition has been introduced here to deprive persons unable to read of the right to vote. I presume that that proposition will not be sanctioned by this Convention. Now, it is proposed to compensate for the advantages which the city of Boston and other cities have in their wealth, talent, and intelligence, by giving other advantages to the country. I do not recognize such a system of checks and balances as that, as a statesmanlike system. If the people of Massachusetts and New England choose to aggregate in large cities, you cannot resist that tendency by a system of legislation. If the population of the smaller towns is gradually leaving them for the cities, all your paper constitutions and laws cannot prohibit them. You may accelerate, hasten, or retard such a result, but you cannot prevent the depopulation of your small towns, in point of numbers, by any system of representation which you may choose to establish here. I do not think it is possible to foresee what will be the future character of the city of Boston. The present prospect is, that it may become a Catholic and democratic city before many years. Be that as it may, we are here doing a work, as has been said, for years. We do not wish to leave a necessity for another Constitutional Convention in a short time. Let us adopt some system which shall seem to be just and right towards all parts of the Commonwealth.

[June 25th.

I believe that there is virtue and intelligence enough in the people to see, although I am not one of those who are perpetually harping upon that string, and I believe they will see in a very short time, that they must adopt the district system, as being the only fair, and just, and equitable system. And whether or not we can go before the people successfully with this system, which carries with it necessity and justice combined, I had rather fall, if fall we must, with an equitable system, than succeed with one which in a short time must be overthrown as unjust and inequitable. I do not believe in attempting to compensate one part of the State by your political system for the natural commercial, manufacturing, or other advantages of other parts. I believe that will be a mistake, a solecism and an error in any system which would attempt to make such distinctions, and I believe that such a system would not meet the approbation of the people. When you go among the people removed at a distance from the excitement of these debates and from political feeling, they will inquire, not whether this or that part of the Commonwealth is to be benefited by this system, but whether it seems to be fair, just and right to themselves as well as the remainder of the Commonwealth. I am not prepared to vote for the measure now immediately before the Committee. I may give my vote for something of the kind in a modified form, but I hope we shall have more discussions and more propositions, until we can approximate to something which will more nearly meet the approbation of all.

Mr. GARDNER, of Seekonk. I wish, Mr. Chairman, to offer the following amendment; to strike out all after the word "that" and substitute the amendment contained in Document No. 68, which reads as follows:

Resolved, That it is expedient so to amend the Constitution, as that the members of the House of Representatives shall be apportioned in the following manner :

1. Every town containing less than one thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect a representative five times in ten years. Or, any two or more towns, containing less than one thousand inhabitants, may, by consent of a majority of the legal voters present at a legal meeting in each of said towns respectively, called for that purpose, and held before the first day of October in the year 1853, and every tenth year thereafter, form themselves into a separate district, and so continue for the term of ten years; and such districts shall have all the rights, in regard to representation, which would belong to a town containing the same number of inhabitants.

2. All towns and cities in the Commonwealth, containing from one thousand to five thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect one representative annually.

All the towns or cities in the Commonwealth, containing over five thousand inhabitants, shall be districted into single representative districts, as follows:

3. Every town or city having from five thousand to ten thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect two representatives annually.

4. Every town or city containing from ten thousand to fifteen thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect three representatives annually.

5. Every town or city containing from fifteen to twenty thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect four representatives annually.

6. Every town or city containing from twenty thousand to twenty-five thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect five representatives annually.

7. Every town or city containing from twentyfive to thirty-one thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect six representatives annually.

8. Every town or city contain ng from thirtyone to thirty-eight thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect seven representatives annually.

9. Every town or city containing from thirtyeight to forty-eight thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect eight representatives annually.

10. Every town or city containing from fortyeight to sixty thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect nine representatives annually.

11. Every town or city containing from sixty to seventy-five thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect ten representatives annually.

12. Every town or city containing from seventyfive to one hundred thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect twelve representatives annually.

13. Every town or city containing from one hundred to one hundred and twenty-five thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect twenty representatives annually.

14. Every town or city containing from one hundred to one hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect twenty-five representatives.

15. Every town or city containing from one hundred and fifty to one hundred and seventyfive thousand inhabitants, shall be entitled to elect thirty representatives; and no town or city shall be entitled to more than that number.

The above plan will give to

The County of Suffolk,

25 Reps. 42

66

58 66

59 66 21 66 20 66 19 66

66

66

Essex,

27

[June 25th.

It is undoubtedly true, that the most important reform which this Committee is called upon to make, is that of a system of representation which shall be just and equal, and which, at the same time, shall meet the approbation of the people of the Commonwealth. Several plans have already been proposed and laid before the Committee. We have the Report of the majority and the minority of the Committee upon that subject. Neither of these plans have seemed to meet with the approbation of the Committee, and it is very doubtful whether if submitted to the people as they have been presented to the Convention, they would meet the approval of the people of the Commonwealth. Another plan has been presented by the gentleman from Lowell, (Mr. Butler,) as an amendment, and although it meets my approbation in some particulars, yet I cannot give to it my cordial assent. It seems to me to be liable to great objection; and therefore, with a great deal of diffidence in regard to this matter, I have come to the conclusion to submit the proposition which has been just read as an amendment to the amendment. The proposition itself will show to the memdisposition which will be made of representatives bers of the Committee, if they will refer to it, the so far regards the counties of the Commonwealth, and I think it will be just to all sections of the State. It has not been presented as a proposition from the eastern or western section of the State, and in my judgment, if it meets with the approval of the Committee or Convention, it would be approved by the people. If we cannot have a representation based upon population, or if we do not intend to base it upon property, it does seem to me, if we are to have a House of moderate size, that the proposition which I have presented, will be just the one that should be adopted. It provides, in the first place, in a satisfactory manner, for giving sixty-four towns one representative each, five times in ten years, by allowing them to send one representative here every year for five years. Second, it gives two hundred and nineteen towns the right of choosing one representative annually. Third, it gives five cities and towns containing five and ten thousand inhabitants, twenty representatives. It gives Lowell, containing thirty-two thousand inhabitants, the right of sending seven representatives, which I believe is one less than the gentleman from Lowell, (Mr. Butler,) contemplated in his plan. The proposition which I submit is certainly very liberal. It proposes to give Boston, with one hundred and thirty-eight thousand inhabitants, twenty-five representatives. The plan now presented is certainly a plain and simple proposition. It contains a provision which may not be called

into requisition, because there are no towns which contain a population ranging between that of Lowell and Boston, yet I thought it necessary to insert in the amendment a provision having reference to such towns as might increase in population, and which would bring them within this range. I hope that the question upon this matter will not be taken until gentlemen can have an opportunity to advert to it and see whether it does not contain provisions which they can adopt. I am very anxious that whatever plan we adopt, shall be one which the people will sanction. From the disposition which has been made of the propositions presented here, I think it very probable that this may share the same fate, and be voted down without any consideration or deliberation whatever. I can only say, if such should be the opinion of the Committee, I shall cheerfully acquiesce in the decision, and shall be glad if we might adopt a plan which would recieve the approbation of a large majority of the Committee. I am opposed to the making of long speeches. I think we have had already too much, and more talk, than is necessary; and I shall therefore submit this amendment to the judgment of the Committee, hoping that they will give it a serious consideration, as I think it is far preferable to the plan suggested by the gentleman from Lowell, (Mr. Butler).

The question was then taken on Mr. Gardner's amendment, and it was rejected.

Mr. HUBBARD, of Boston. I was much pleased with the suggestion made yesterday by the gentleman from Lynn, (Mr. Hood,) that this whole matter, with the various propositions which have been submitted by different gentlemen, should be referred to a large Committee, who might meet together and eliminate from the various propositions such features as might be combined into a whole, that would be likely to unite a majority of this Committee in their approval. Belonging to that unfortunate portion of the Committee to whose counsels we have been told that the majority should not listen, and of whom another gentleman has been pleased to say, that its very aim and object is to embarrass the action of the Committee, by embodying such features in the amendments submitted to the people, as will secure their defeat by the people, I may not, perhaps, be able to suggest my views in such acceptable form as will secure to them much favor from the Committee. It seems to me, that the grounds which have been taken here in this Committee while this subject has been under consideration, have been at variance with sound principles and wise statesmanship. I think these comparisons between the cities of the Commonwealth

[June 25th

and the rural portions of it, are unwise, and only injurious in their whole tendency. My views are, that the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is a body politic, and like a human body, every part and portion of it is connected with every other part and portion of it, and with the whole, and as in the human body the hand cannot say to the foot, I have no need of thee, so it is in the body politic. I deem it unwise and inexpedient that one part should claim to itself pre-eminence for its virtue and intelligence, at the expense of other portions. What is the population of our cities? In some of them, to a large extent, the foreign element prevails; but if you will look to the men of influence and standing in our various cities, from what quarter do they come. Are not the merchant princes of Boston, as they are sometimes called, the sons of the yeomen of the country ? Have they not interests and sympathies in common with their fathers, brothers, and kindred in our rural districts? And is it not the case that our citizens are frequently retiring from this place, where they have been successful in acquiring property, and taking up their residences in the various rural districts of the State? Why, then, should comparisons be thus drawn, which, if not with the purpose, still have the tendency, to prejudice one portion of the Commonwealth against another. Sir, if it be so, that the cities are to become the chief centres of population, may not the time come, when these cities will have an overwhelming majority of the population of the Commonwealth; and if at the present day the smaller towns of the Commonwealth are claiming that protecting power against the cities, on the ground of their superior intelligence and wealth, may there not be a feeling enkindled in these cities, which, when that not far distant day shall come, will lead them to exercise the power which they shall hold, with something of the same spirit which some gentlemen have exhibited in claiming for the small towns such great powers as they ask, that four hundred persons in one portion of the Commonwealth shall count as much as four thousand in another. We have had many illustrations of the principles contended for by those who claim the right of town representation. I recollect that when I was a member of the legislature, some years ago, a proposition was made that every town should become a place where deeds should be registered. It was pressed with great earnestness, on account of the great facilities which would thus be afforded to all portions of the Commonwealth; and I recollect that the gentleman from Pittsfield, (Mr. Rockwell,) addressed us then, and said he was disposed to carry out the proposition to its legitimate results, in order to show